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    The Christian's relationship to the law (posted by Mats)

    Posted by Lev/Christopher on March 31, 2009 at 11:00pm
    in Theology

    Our death to the law does not mean that the law is dead, but its function has changed. The reverse, uncircumseised man inherited the sin nature and are therefore addressed under the law and its lethal function to raise up sin and its request in us. Since the uncircumseised, unsaved man only lives through his flesh, the spirit of her is dead. And heighten the law function in her when she violates it. That results in spiritual death, because the natural man can only live by its natural desires and lusts. When man is born again, has a circumseised heart, has repent and is saved, she has a new relationship with the law. From being something that heighten the sinful request, flesh life, then the law instead become a servant for life and the meat's death, a total opposite function compared with the unsaved man. the law can now no longer raise the sinful request because we have died from the old function of the law. The difference can be very difficult to understand unless the Spirit of God reveals it to us.

    The main thing to remember is that the law has not ceased or disappeared when Yah'shua died on the cross and reconciled the world with God. It is when man may become a new creation the laws lethal force is changed to instead be a God's tool for the new nature. The new man must be reshaped in line with it, because we are not fully transformed to the external once. It is a slow process that takes a lifetime. What prevents this process are essentially two different things. In the first of our disobedience and secondly, that we can breathe life into our flesh. When the law not can bring life into the sinful request, we can make it through our soul's force. Anything that is not produced by the Spirit of God is equal to our soul mission or carnal way to please God. He seems it just as bad about it as if we were unsaved and condemned to be slaves of sin. But God is of long courageous and let ourselves get to the insight that we can not produce any fruit which becomes permanent. We can continue to produce fleshly fruit throughout life but we "are saved as by fire" as Peter puts it. It is much better to be clean in the same way as the process that gold undergoes to get a higher quality 'when it is purified from the than our work "is burning up the hay and straw."

    In the case example of diet, the sabbath and the festivals, most of whom are positive commandments, we need to look them in the same way as all other commandments. We can not produce their own fruit in terms of these things either. Christians who beginns keeping the diet, sabbath and festivals, but have a uncircumseised heart produces a fleshly fruit that is just as despicable in the eyes of God as everything else that has not undergone the process that I have just described.

    The question is not, should I keep the diet, celebrate the Sabbath and feasts? But instead, have I a circumseised heart? How do I know if I have such a heart that God wants me to have?

    The circumcision was the sign in the old covenant. Many say that it is baptism, which has replaced circumcision, but I think it is a human interpretation. In the new covenant it is the heart circumcision which has replaced the external sign. You cut away the foreskin in the old covenant, but in the new, you can not cut off a piece of heart, but you have to replace it with a completely new one. You can not cut away the piece of heart that the law uses when it pumps into its deadly poison - flesh request else lusts and flesh. This new heart can no longer pump it by the law poisoned blood producing meat lives and kils's life. The new heart can only use the pure fresh blood that once flowed on Golgatha.


    I don't think you can say that heart circumcision has "replaced"physical circumcision because (1) heart circumcision was also a part of the Old Covenant Torah, and (2) you can't replace something inner with something outer. YYou can say that the inner remains or continues but you can't say it replaces it.

    The New Covenant is about total immersion in Messiah, the Old was about cutting off the old nature, which was actually impossible under the Old Covenant which only foreshadowed what was to come in Messiah. Physical circumcision was the visible, outer covenant before witnesses of an 8 year-old (or older if a convert) that involved shedding of our blood. Yah'shua has fulfilled that by being our blood shedding and the means to remove the carnal nature through crucifixion. The shedding of blood is no longer required. What is now required? Total immersion in Messiah so that we are fully IN Him. Baptism is a covenant sign for New Covenant believers do indicate many things but including a witness that Yah'shua is out cutting-off of sin. So I think the comparison of physical circumcision with water baptism is valid. (I do not think it was an Old Covenant mikveh though it paralleled it).

    I can´t see any direct references in the New Testament about baptism as a parallel with the circumcision, but we can read about the baptism as a a parallel to the event when the Israelites went through the Red Sea. I use the heart as more as an metaphorical picture as the prophet Ezekiel did, not as an appropriate theological view of circumcision and the meaning of it. What I mean is that the it´s important to have a circumcised heart when you obey the commandments, otherwise You will be as the unsaved Jews or the old Israelites how sometimes obeyed in their own strength.You say that heart circumcision was also a part of the Old Covenant Torah. Yes, but they failed because of their hearts condition was never changed. I heard from the the reformed church I´v visit that they used the circumcision as an argument for baptismal of infants. I have some problem to understand why You can´t say that You replace some inner with some outer. For me it´s more what You are focusing on, not replacing the spiritual meaning of it. of course it´s till there. I believe we do many things that are replacing the old covenants applications, for example the offering systems. Isn´t valid to say that praying has replaced for example the sacrifice of peace-offering?

    I certainly understand where you're coming from and I most definitely agree about the importance of right focus. Whether one ordinance had "replaced" another one or not is probably just academic anyway - the important thing is that Scripture says physical circumcision is of no religious value any longer under the New Covenant, that heart-circumcision is the "main thing", and that baptism by full immersion is the outward sign of rebirth and covenental entry into the new Covenant and Messianic Community.

    Interesting that the Reformed Church use physical circumcision of babies as a justification for infant baptism. If that were so, then their use of sprinkling instead of immersion could only be justified on the basis that you might risk drowning a baby if you immerse it, thereby indirectly accusing the Creator of 'forcing' man to modify a heaven-given ordinance so as not to accidentally kill infants.

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