The
purpose of this Group is to examine the claims made by the
pseudepigraphical book of Enoch which many Messanics view as inspired
scripture (this ministry does not). We shall here examine the claims
and the evidence and why occultists love it...
Introduction to the Book of Enoch
The Book of Enoch (also 1 Enoch[1]) is a pseudepigraphic work ascribed
to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah and son of Jared (Genesis 5:18).
While this book today is non-canonical in most Christian Churches, it
was explicitly quoted[2]:8 in the New Testament (Letter of Jude
1:14-15) and by many of the early Church Fathers. The Ethiopian
Orthodox Church to this day regards it to be canonical.
It is wholly extant only in the Ge'ez language, with Aramaic fragments
from the Dead Sea Scrolls and a few Greek and Latin fragments. There is
no consensus among Western scholars about the original language: some
propose Aramaic, others Hebrew, while the probable thesis according to
E. Isaac is that 1 Enoch, as Daniel, was composed partially in Aramaic
and partially in Hebrew[2]:6. Ethiopian scholars hold that Ge'ez is the
language of the original from which the Greek and Aramaic copies were
made, pointing out that it is the only language in which the complete
text has been found[3].
According to Western scholars its older sections (mainly in the Book of
the Watchers) date from about 300 BC and the latest part (Book of
Parables) probably was composed at the end of 1st century BC[4]; It is
argued that all the writers of the New Testament were familiar with it
and were influenced by it in thought and diction.[5] - see Wikipedia Book of Enoch.
Comment by Doug Dayhuff on July 28, 2009 at 4:24am
we are also glad Christopher taught on this as well, as one of the
teachers we tried to learn from promoted this book. It was more of a
curiostiy for us than anything and I never took anything from it to
share with our congregatiom.
Comment by Andrew mwangi muchangi on July 27, 2009 at 11:05am
wow,today i just tried to read the book,its very interesting,but i wont
read it for more holiness or increase in faith,its somehow revealing
the vampires and how they have brought suffering to mankind and there
eternal judgement,lets read it altogether for the bible says enock was
a good man and was taken by God as a sign of the rapture,dear
christopher if there some more books dont hesitate to expose all,we
have to know what has been revealed in any way in this wicked days,YAH
BLESS,
Comment by DR on July 13, 2009 at 7:22am
Doug, from what I understand, the Book of Enoch is largely Ethiopian,
with some non-extant Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. It isn't from the
Alexandrian manuscripts or Textus Receptus (although there are other
manuscript streams, too).
I hope this is of help to you.
Comment by Doug Dayhuff on July 13, 2009 at 5:40am
There are two streams of manuscripts from which all translations come
from. One is Antioch and the other Alexandria. Does anyone know what
steam "The Book of Enoch" came from?
Comment by Avah on July 13, 2009 at 5:00am
Scott, you said - "
I am sorry, but all NCCG is is a denomination, and that is condemned in
1 Corinthians 1, and also is not teaching Scripture, but teaching the
doctrines, traditions, and commandments of men and that is condemned in
Colossians 2. I understand now why you claim the Book of Enoch is not
from YHVH. The versions and teachings that NCCG teaches is not from
YHVH and must then denounce anything and anyone that is."
First of all, we can disagree in love. :) Secondly, we are not a
denomination, we are a group of people who love Yahweh and are striving
to know Him and serve Him in shalom and love.
I am not a bible scholar, frankly I am not interested in being one, but
I am interested in serving Yahweh and serving others, and that includes
you. :) My prayer is that Yahweh bless you and fill your life and heart
with all that He is and that as the body of Christ, we learn to love
and be patient and kind with one another.
Comment by Lev/Christopher on July 12, 2009 at 11:27pm
You have passed many judgments, brother, and if I may say so,
presumptuously. For one thing, we have no 'authoritative' translation
that we use - we recommend a multiplicity of versions. We are
cogniscent of Westcott-Hort deficiencies but we are equally cogniscent
of the fact that there are many Byzantine or Received texts. We do not
recognise pseudo-scholars like Gail Riplinger
whose writings are so riddled with errors as to have no credibility
whatsoever. Which version do you use? And on what basis do you select
that version? As for the 1611 Version of the KJV, it doesn't exist
anymore - it was lost long ago. I respect everyone right to choose
which version(s) they believe to be best (and that's the best you can
do, because none is perfect). But rather than get into the KJV-Only
hocuspocus here, I will create a separate group for those who want to amicably
discuss the question without all the immature mud-slinging that often
happens when people defend positions based as much on hormones as
reason. I really don't follow your logic at all as fas as the Book of
Enoch is concerned - we already know its provenance and roughly when it
was written - it is a 'modern' conconction.
The position of this ministry (which you will see from the main page
here) is that we only accept the Protestant Canon of the Version as
authoritative - everything else we regard as speculative. Those who
want a Protestant Canon-Plus discussion group need to find another
group so as not to disturb the harmony of this group. And with respect,
I have met so many "messengers" with so many different 'positions' that
the fact that they claim to be "messengers of YHVH" or some other deity
does not really phase me any more. They can't all be bona fide
messengers and teach conflicting messages. I recommend that the
"messengers" start their own groups, collect their disciples and
remnants, and see whether they have Yahweh's approbation or not over a
period of time. Given that they all say contradictory things, they are
walking a tightrope. It is, as I have said elsewhere, to have
convictions and be passionate about them but once those convictions
lead these "messengers" into pomposity and judgment of others, and once
the very clear fruits of the Ruach/Spirit start disappearing from them
and are replaced by another spirit, then I am forced to start drawing
lines here. There are altogether far too many Moses-men and
self-appointed prophets who just love to judge and condemn but have
little idea how to love people as people instead of as mere recipients
of theology. I have also noticed, incidentally, how "messengers" come
into groups like ours having set themselves up as potential martyrs in
advance by "predicting", or even goading, moderators like myself to
"throw them out". We have enough room in our heart to embrace people of
different theologies, recognising that we are all still in the process
of coming to unity in the faith, but where we become "intolerant" - and
unashamedly so - is when people come here trying to lord it over others
and seek to divide souls who are enjoying the simplicity of faith and
union brought by the Ruach in love through pleas of theological
correctness.
Again, I ask: what does the Book of Enoch have to say about salvation
that is not already contained within the Protestant Canon? And as a
follow-up, what is deficient about the Protestant Canon? In the end it
doesn't matter how many scriptures you add to the Bible to try and
create harmony and unity because you could have a thousand bona fide
scriptural texts and still have disunity, and that because what brings
souls to unity is the Ruach, not human acumen.
You won't find unity through having a 'perfect' Bible translation -
even the KJV-Onlyers disagree and quarrel amongst themselves in spite
of having am imaginary 'perfect' version which even its original
tranlators denied.
For those who want to know more about the KHV-Only Cult, please click the link below:
We are not here to bash anyone on the head and we expect our members to
refrain from that bullyish practice too. If any man be a "prophet" let
him be recognised as one first, with signs accompanying.
Comment by Scott Ledbetter on July 12, 2009 at 10:53pm
Lev/Christopher, you said, "I believe you are wise to be cautious,
Andrew. People have been saved and gone to heaven without any of the
pseudepigrapha (I keep telling Mormons this too - if the Book of Mormon
was so important [assuming it was true}, why wait until 1830?)" I could
say that of all the modern translations because they use the
Westcott-Hort perversion of Greek. Why would YHVH wait 1850+ years and
not allow all those who came before to have the real Scripture? He
would not, and so all these so-called changes come from HaSatan and not
from YHVH.
NCCG recommend The Scriptures. This is a version that uses Nazi Hebrew
Scripture for it's Tanach. Teach Hebrew Scriptures by using the
muderers of the Hebrews own words. I am sorry, but all NCCG is is a
denomination, and that is condemned in 1 Corinthians 1, and also is not
teaching Scripture, but teaching the doctrines, traditions, and
commandments of men and that is condemned in Colossians 2. I understand
now why you claim the Book of Enoch is not from YHVH. The versions and
teachings that NCCG teaches is not from YHVH and must then denounce
anything and anyone that is.
Comment by Scott Ledbetter on July 12, 2009 at 10:23pm
Lev/Christopher, You said, "Jude 14-15
"Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute
judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their
ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all
the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
NKJV"
First off, I do not use the NKJV because it uses Westocott-Hort's Greek
Version - which is praised by the same witches that also praise the
Book of Enoch so I do not know why you accept one while rejecting the
other - and a Nazi Leader's fathers Hebrew version.
Secondly, you did not quote the entire verse. Verse 14 says - in the
NKJV - "And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men
also, saying, 'Behold [YHVH] cometh with ten thousands of His saints'".
It plainly says that this came from Encoch, the seventh from Adam.
And now who can say if this book originally came from Enoch or not? Are
we going by the wisdom ofmen and not the wisdom of YHVH? YHVH chose to
put this specifically in the book of Jude. So what part of the book of
Enoch is anyone saying is going against Scripture? HaSatan has done his
best to use the "wise men" (Greek: magi) of this world to take more and
more out of Scripture. In my lesson series entitled "What is the
truth?", you will see how that HaSatan has been just carving up
Scripture using the theologians and "biblical scholars" to back him up.
I have actually two copies of the Book of Enoch. I have read it several
times. I have not found anything in there that contradicts Scripture,
unless you are of the RCC point of view that says there are no fallen
angels. Then of course you wold throw out the book of Enoch. The Book
of Mormon clearly contradicts Scripture. I have not read the Book of
Yasher, so I can not tell you if it does or does not.
And for the record, I have the KJV, the 1611 KJV, and the 1599 Geneva
Bible. But any version that came after 1880 I will not use because they
are all tainted, and eventhough this may get me kicked out for saying
this, those that use those versions are not the wheat but are tares
just teaching HaSatan's doctrines instead of Scripture. If I am kicked
out for saying that, so be it, for if you reject the truth sent by the
messenger of YHVH, you have rejected Him, and in rejecting Him, you
have not only denied Him, but you have also slandered or balsphemed the
Ruach HaKodesh. I am not sent to convert, but to teach, and let people
choose whether to accept the Truth of YHVH or reject it.
One last thing, there are not going to be millions that are saved and
go to heaven. There will be a puny amount, 10 thousand, and that is
from the time of Pentecost til the rapture. People can be converted to
Satan's doctrines and not the doctrines of YHVH. They can claim they
are saved and show some sort or "sign", but that does not make them
wheat in the kingdom.
Comment by Lev/Christopher on July 11, 2009 at 3:23am
I believe you are wise to be cautious, Andrew. People have been saved
and gone to heaven without any of the pseudepigrapha (I keep telling
Mormons this too - if the Book of Mormon was so important [assuming it
was true}, why wait until 1830?). Historically I notice what Yahweh has
provided (Divine Providence) and I observe that the Protestant Canon
has demonstrated itself to be adequate. If it weren't, Yahweh must have
done a bade job in 'providing'. Same with the King James-Only
hocus-pocus - people were saved reading the Geneva Bible and other
versions before that and are today in heaven. I observe the millions
being converted by the Bible alone in China and India - with power and
signs - and I again see Yahweh's providence.
Comment by Andrew mwangi muchangi on July 11, 2009 at 2:01am
I am just trying to be careful of myself,i believe nothing can inspire
me most like the bible that i have known since childhood,however
anything contrary to tha bible will be another story altogether,mark
the way its written it simply looks as onother chapter in the bible
that we have and will always love,hope my conscience will be clean and
my mind perfect even as i leap carefully to exp[lore the
unknown,shalom.
