The following is by a secular psychotherapist and expert in MPD/DID. It contains much useful information about cultic programming techniques and methodologies for deprogramming. It should be remembered that the secular approach does not acknowledge the existence of demons or the efficacy of Yah'shua the Messiah (Jesus Christ) in deliverance, uses hypnosis (with all the dangers of that), and does not remove the demonic. Where secular psychotherapists can be successful is in returning patients to a 'normal' (unsaved) state, but no more. No doubt they play their part, and an important one at that, given the lack of competent deliverance ministers at this time. Certainly many of our clients have been through secular psychotherapy and derived some benefit.
The Greenbaum Speech - Hypnosis in MPD: Ritual Abuse
Herein
is the lecture by D.C.Hammond, originally entitled "Hypnosis in MPD:
Ritual Abuse," but now usually known as the "Greenbaum Speech," delivered
at the Fourth Annual Eastern Regional Conference on Abuse and Multiple
Personality, Thursday June 25, 1992, at the Radisson Plaza Hotel, Mark
Center, Alexandria, Virginia.
Sponsored
by the Center for Abuse Recovery & Empowerment, The Psychiatric
Institute of Washington, D.C. Both a tape and a transcript were at one
time available from Audio Transcripts of Alexandria, Virginia (800-338-2111).
Tapes and transcripts of other sessions from the conference are still
being sold but -- understandably -- not this one. The transcript below
was made from a privately made tape of the original lecture.
The
single most remarklable thing about this speech is how little one has
heard of it in the two years since its original delivery. It is recommended
that one reads far enough at least until one finds why it's called "the
Greenbaum speech."
In the
introduction the following background information is given for D. Corydon
Hammond:B.S. M.S. Ph.D (Counseling Psychology) from the University of
Utah,
Diplomate in Clinical Hypnosis, the American Board of Psychological
Hypnosis,
Diplomate in Sex Therapy, the American Board of Sexology,
Clinical Supervisor and Board Examiner, American Board of Sexology,
Diplomate in Marital and Sex Therapy, American Board of Family Psychology,
Licensed Psychologist,
Licensed Marital Therapist,
Licensed Family Therapist, State of Utah,
Research Associate Professor of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation,
Utah School of Medicine,
Director and Founder of the Sex and Marital Therapy Clinic, University
of Utah.
Adjunct Associate Professor of Educational Psychology, University of
Utah Abstract
Editor, The American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis
Advising Editor and Founding Member, Editorial Board, The Ericsonian
Monograph
Referee, The Journal of Abnormal Psychology
1989 Presidential Award of Merit, American Society of Clinical
Hypnosis
1990 Urban Sector Award, American Society of Clinical Hypnosis
Current President, American Society of Clinical Hypnosis
THE
GREENBAUM SPEECH of D.C.HAMMOND'
We've got
a lot to cover today and let me give you a rough approximate outline
of the the things that I'd like us to get into. First, let me ask how
many of you have had at least one course or workshop on hypnosis? Can
I see the hands? Wonderful. That makes our job easier.
Okay. I
want to start off by talking a little about trance-training and the
use of hypnotic phenomena with an MPD dissociative-disorder population,
to talk some about unconscious exploration, methods of doing that, the
use of imagery and symbolic imagery techniques for managing physical
symptoms, input overload, things like that. Before the day's out, I
want to spend some time talking about something I think has been completely
neglected in the field of dissociative disorder, and that's talking
about methods of profound calming for automatic hyper-arousal that's
been conditioned in these patients.
We're going
to spend a considerable length of time talking about age-regression
and abreaction in working through a trauma. I'll show you with a non-MPD
patient -- some of that kind of work -- and then extrapolate from what
I find so similar and different with MPD cases. Part of that, I would
add, by the way, is that I've been very sensitive through the years
about taping MPD cases or ritual-abuse cases, part of it being that
some of that feels a little like using patients and I think that this
population has been used enough. That's part of the reason, by choice,
that I don't generally videotape my work.
I also
want to talk a bunch about hypnotic relapse-prevention strategies and
post- integration therapy today. Finally, I hope to find somewhere in
our time-frame to spend on hour or so talking specifically about ritual
abuse and about mind-control programming and brainwashing -- how it's
done, how to get on the inside with that -- which is a topic that in
the past I haven't been willing to speak about publicly, have done that
in small groups and in consultations, but recently decided that it was
high time that somebody started doing it. So we're going to talk about
specifics today.
[Applause]
In Chicago
at the first international congress where ritual abuse was talked about
I can remember thinking, "How strange and interesting." I can recall
many people listening to an example given that somebody thought was
so idiosyncratic and rare, and all the people coming up after saying,
"Gee, you're treating one, too? You're in Seattle"...Well, I'm in Toronto...Well,
I'm in Florida...Well, I'm in Cincinnati." I didn't know what to think
at that point.
It wasn't
too long after that I found my first ritual-abuse patient in somebody
I was already treating and we hadn't gotten that deep yet. Things in
that case made me very curious about the use of mind-control techniques
and hypnosis and other brainwashing techniques. So I started studying
brainwashing and some of the literature in that area and became acquainted
with, in fact, one of the people who'd written one of the better books
in that area.
Then I
decided to do a survey, and from the ISSMP&D [International Society
for the Study of Mulptiple Personality and Dissociation] folks I picked
out about a dozen and a half therapists that I though were seeing more
of that than probably anyone else around and I started surveying them.
The interview protocol, that I had. got the same reaction almost without
exception. Those therapists said, "You're asking questions I don't know
the answers to. You're asking more specific questions than I've ever
asked my patients." Many of those same therapists said, "Let me ask
those questions and I'll get back to you with the answer." Many of them
not only got back with answers, but said, "You've got to talk to this
patient or these two patients." I ended up doing hundred of dollars
worth of telephone interviewing.
What I
came out of that was a grasp of a variety of brainwashing methods being
used all over the country. I started to hear some similarities. Whereas
I hadn't known, to begin with, how widespread things were, I was now
getting a feeling that there were a lot of people reporting some similar
things and that there must be some degree of communication here.
Then approximately
two and a half years ago I had some material drop in my lap. My source
was saying a lot of things that I knew were accurate about some of the
brainwashing, but it was telling me new material I had no idea about.
At this point I took and decided to check it out in three ritual-abuse
patients I was seeing at the time. Two of the three had what they were
describing, in careful inquiry without leading or contaminating. The
fascinating thing was that as I did a telephone-consult with a therapist
that I'd been consulting for quite a number of months on an MPD case
in another state, I told her to inquire about certain things. She said,
"Well, what are those things?" I said, "I'm not going to tell you, because
I don't want there to be any possibility of contamination. Just come
back to me and tell me what the patient says."
She called
me back two hours later, said, "I just had a double session with this
patient and there was a part of him that said, 'Oh, we're so excited.
If you know about this stuff, you know how the Cult Programmers get
on the inside and our therapy is going to go so much faster.'"
Many other
patients since have had a reaction of wanting to pee their pants out
of anxiety and fear rather than thinking it was wonderful thing.
But the
interesting thing was that she then asked, "What are these things?"
They were word perfect -- same answers my source had given me. I've
since repeated that in many parts of the country. I've consulted in
eleven states and one foreign country, in some cases over the telephone,
in some cases in person, in some cases giving the therapist information
ahead of time and saying, "Be very careful how you phrase this. Phrase
it in these ways so you don't contaminate." In other cases not even
giving the therapist information ahead of time so they couldn't.
When you
start to find the same highly esoteric information in different states
and different countries, from Florida to California, you start to get
an idea that there's something going on that is very large, very well
coordinated, with a great deal of communication and sytematicness to
what's happening. So I have gone from someone kind of neutral and not
knowing what to think about it all to someone who clearly believes ritual
abuse is real and that the people who say it isn't are either naive
like people who didn't want to believe the Holocaust or -- they're dirty.
[Applause]
Now for
a long time I would tell a select group of therapists that I knew and
trusted, information and say, "Spread it out. Don't spread my name.
Don't say where it came from. But here's some information. Share it
with other therapists if you find it's on target, and I'd appreciate
your feedback." People would question -- in talks -- and say, you know,
they were hungry for information. Myself, as well as a few others that
I've shared it with, were hedging out of concern and out of personal
threats and out of death threats. I finally decided to hell with them.
If they're going to kill me, they're going to kill me. It's time to
share more information with therapists. Part of that comes because we
proceeded so cautiously and slowly, checking things in many different
locations and find the same thing. So I'm going to give you the way
in with ritual-abuse programming. I certainly can't tell you everything
that you want to know in forty-five or fifty minutes, but I'm going
to give you the essentials to get inside and start working at a new
level.
I don't
know what proportion, honestly, of patients have this. I would guess
that maybe somewhere around at least fifty percent, maybe as high as
three-quarters, I would guess maybe two-thirds of your ritual-abuse
patients may have this. What do I think the distinguishing characteristic
is? If they were raised from birth in a mainstream cult or if they were
an non-bloodline person, meaning neither parent was in the Cult, but
Cult people had a lot of access to them in early childhood, they may
also have it. I have seen more than one ritual-abuse patient who clearly
had all the kind of ritual things you hear about. They seemed very genuine.
They talked about all the typical things that you hear in this population,
but had none of this programming with prolonged extensive checking.
So I believe in one case I was personally treating that she was a kind
of schizmatic break-off that had kind of gone off and done their own
thing and were no longer hooked into a mainstream group.
[Pause]
Here's
where it appears to have come from. At the end of World War II, before
it even ended, Allen Dulles and people from our Intelligence
Community were already in Switzerland making contact to get out Nazi
scientists. As World War II ends, they not only get out rocket scientists,
but they also get out some Nazi doctors who have been doing mind-control
research in the camps.
They brought
them to the United States. Along with them was a young boy, a teenager,
who had been raised in a Hasidic Jewish tradition and a background of
Cabalistic mysticism that probably appealed to people in the Cult because
at least by the turn of the century Aleister Crowley had been introducing
Cabalism into Satanic stuff, if not earlier. I suspect it may have formed
some bond between them. But he saved his skin by collaborating and being
an assistant to them in the death-camp experiments. They brought him
with them.
They started
doing mind-control research for Military Intelligence in military
hospitals in the United States. The people that came, the Nazi doctors,
were Satanists. Subsequently, the boy changed his name, Americanized
it some, obtained an M.D. degree, became a physician and continued this
work that appears to be at the center of Cult Programming today. His
name is known to patients throughout the country.
[Pause]
What they
basically do is they will get a child and they will start this, in basic
forms, it appears, by about two and a half after the child's already
been made dissociative. They'll make him dissociative not only through
abuse, like sexual abuse, but also things like putting a mousetrap on
their fingers and teaching the parents, "You do not go in until the
child stops crying. Only then do you go in and remove it."
They start
in rudimentary forms at about two and a half and kick into high gear,
it appears, around six or six and a half, continue through adolescence
with periodic reinforcements in adulthood.
Basically
in the programming the child will be put typically on a gurney. They
will have an IV in one hand or arm. They'll be strapped down, typically
naked. There'll be wires attached to their head to monitor electroencephalograph
patterns. They will see a pulsing light, most often described as red,
occasionally white or blue. They'll be given, most commonly I believe,
Demerol. Sometimes it'll be other drugs as well depending on the kind
of programming. They have it, I think, down to a science where they've
learned you give so much every twenty- five minutes until the programming
is done.
They then
will describe a pain on one ear, their right ear generally, where it
appears a needle has been placed, and they will hear weird, disorienting
sounds in that ear while they see photic stimulation to drive the brain
into a brainwave pattern with a pulsing light at a certain frequency
not unlike the goggles that are now available through Sharper Image
and some of those kinds of stores. Then, after a suitable period when
they're in a certain brainwave state, they will begin programming, programming
oriented to self-destruction and debasement of the person.
In a patient
at this point in time about eight years old who has gone through a great
deal early programming took place on a military installation. That's
not uncommon. I've treated and been involved with cases who are part
of this original mind-control project as well as having their programming
on military reservations in many cases. We find a lot of connections
with the CIA. This patient now was in a Cult school, a private Cult
school where several of these sessions occurred a week.
She would
go into a room, get all hooked up. They would do all of these sorts
of things. When she was in the proper altered state, now they were no
longer having to monitor it with electroencephalographs, she also had
already had placed on her electrodes, one in the vagina, for example,
four on the head. Sometimes they'll be on other parts of the body. They
will then begin and they would say to her, "You are angry with someone
in the group." She'd say, "No, I'm not" and they'd violently shock her.
They would say the same thing until she complied and didn't make any
negative response.
Then they
would continue. "And because you are angry with someone in the group,"
or "When you are angry with someone in the group, you will hurt yourself.
Do you understand?" She said, "No" and they shocked her. They repeated
again, "Do you understand?" "Well, yes, but I don't want to." Shock
her again untill they get compliance. Then they keep adding to it. "And
you will hurt yourself by cutting yourself. Do you understand?" Maybe
she'd say yes, but they might say, "We don't believe you" and shock
her anyway. "Go back and go over it again." They would continue in this
sort of fashion. She said typically it seemed as though they'd go about
thirty minutes, take a break for a smoke or something, come back. They
may review what they'd done and stopped or they might review what they'd
done and go on to new material. She said the sessions might go half
an hour, they might go three hours. She estimated three times a week.
Programming
under the influence of drugs in a certain brainwave state and with these
noises in one ear and them speaking in the other ear, usually the left
ear, associated with right hemisphere non-dominant brain functioning,
and with them talking, therefore, and requiring intense concentration,
intense focusing. Because often they'll have to memorize and say certain
things back, word-perfect, to avoid punishment, shock, and other kinds
of things that are occurring. This is basically how a lot of programming
goes on.
Some of
it'll also use other typical brainwashing kinds of techniques. There
will be very standardized types of hypnotic things done at times. There'll
be sensory deprivation which we know increases suggestibility in anyone.
Total sensory deprivation, suggestibility has significantly increased,
from the research. It's not uncommon for them to use a great deal of
that, including formal sensory- deprivation chambers before they do
certain of these things.
[Pause]
Now let
me give you, because we don't have a lot of time, as much practical
information as I can.
The way
that I would inquire as to whether or not some of this might be there
would be with ideomotor finger-signals. After you've set them up I would
say, "I want the central inner core of you to take control of the finger-signals."
Don't ask the unconscious mind. The case where you're inquiring about
ritual abuse, that's for the central inner core. The core is a Cult-created
part. "And I want that central inner core of you to take control of
this hand of these finger-signals and what it has for the yes-finger
to float up. I want to ask the inner core of you is there any part of
you, any part of Mary," that's the host's name, "who knows anything
about Alpha, Beta, Delta, or Theta."
If you
get a Yes, it should raise a red flag that you might have someone with
formal intensive brainwashing and programming in place.
I would
then ask and say, "I want a part inside who knows something about Alpha,
Beta, Delta, and Theta to come up to a level where you can speak to
me and when you're here say, 'I'm here.'" I would not ask if a part
was willing to. No one's going to particularly want to talk about this.
I would just say, "I want some part who can tell me about this to come
out." Without leading them ask them what these things are. I've had
consults where I've come in. Sometimes I've gotten a Yes to that, but
as I've done exploration it appeared to be some kind of compliance response
or somebody wanting, in two or three cases, to appear maybe that they
were ritual abuse and maybe they were in some way, but with careful
inquiry and looking it was obvious that they did not have what we were
looking for.
Let me
tell you what these are. Let's suppose that this whole front row here
are multiples and that she has an alter named Helen and she has one
named Mary, she has one named Gertrude, she has one named Elizabeth,
and she has one named Monica. Every one of those alters may have put
on it a program, perhaps designated alpha-zero-zero-nine a Cult person
could say, "Alpha-zero-zero-nine" or make some kind of hand gesture
to indicate this and get the same part out in any one of them even though
they had different names that they may be known by to you.
Alphas
appear to represent general programming, the first kind of things put
in. Betas appear to be sexual programs. For example, how to perform
oral sex in a certain way, how to perform sex in rituals, having to
do with producing child pornography, directing child pornography, prostitution.
Deltas are killers trained in how to kill in ceremonies. There'll also
be some self- harm stuff mixed in with that, assassination and killing.
Thetas are called psychic killers.
You know,
I had never in my life heard those two terms paired together. I'd never
heard the words "psychic killers" put together, but when you have people
in different states, including therapists inquiring and asking, "What
is Theta," and patients say to them, "Psychic killers," it tends to
make one a believer that certain things are very systematic and very
widespread. This comes from their belief in psychic sorts of abilities
and powers, including their ability to psychically communicate with
"mother'" including their ability to psychically cause somebody
to develop a brain aneurysm and die. It also is a more future-oriented
kind of programming.
Then there's
Omega. I usually don't include that word when I say my first question
about this or any part inside that knows about Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta
because Omega will shake them even more. Omega has to do with self-destruct
programming. Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. This can include
self-mutilation as well as killing- themselves programming.
Gamma appears
to be system-protection and deception programming which will provide
misinformation to you, try to misdirect you, tell you half-truths, protect
different things inside.
There can
also be other Greek letters. I'd recommend that you go and get your
entire Greek alphabet and if you have verified that some of this stuff
is present and they have given you some of the right answers about what
some of this material is, and I can't underline enough: DO NOT LEAD
THEM. Do not say, "Is this killers?" Get the answer from them, please.
When you've done this and it appears to be present, I would take your
entire Greek alphabet and, with ideomotor signals, go through the alphabet
and say, "Is there any programming inside associated with epsilon, omicron,"
and go on through. There may be some sytematicness to some of the other
letter, but I'm not aware of it. I've found, for example, in one case
that Zeta had to do with the production of snuff films that this person
was involved with.
With another
person, Omicron had to do with their linkage and associations with drug
smuggling and with the Mafia and with big business and government leaders.
So there's going to be some individualism, I think, in some of those.
Some of
those are come-home programs, "come back to the Cult", "return to the
Cult" program.
Here's
the flaw in the system. They have built in shut-down and erasure codes
so if they got into trouble they could shut something down and they
could also erase something. These codes will sometimes be idiosyncratic
phrases, or ditties. Sometimes they will be numbers maybe followed by
a word. There's some real individuality to that. At first I had hoped
if we can get some of these maybe they'll work with different people.
No such luck. It's very unlikely unless they were programmed at about
the same point in time as part of the same little group. Stuff that
I've seen suggests that they carry laptop computers, the programmers,
which still include everything that they did twenty, thirty years ago
in them in terms of the names of alters, the programs, the codes, and
so on.
Now what
you can do is get erasure codes, and I always ask, "If I say this code,
what will happen?' Doublecheck. "Is there any part inside who has different
information?" Watch your ideomotor signals and what I've found is you
can erase programs by giving the appropriate codes, but then you must
abreact the feelings. So if you erase Omega, which is often where I've
started because it's the most high risk. Afterwards I will get all the
Omega, what were formerly Omega alters, together so that we will abreact
and give back to the host the memories associated with all the programming
that was done with Omega and anything any Omega part ever had to do
in a fractionated abreaction.
They use
the metaphor -- and it is their metaphor -- of robots. and it is like
a robot shell comes down over the child alter to make them act in robotic
fashion. Once in a while internally you'll confront robots. What I found
from earlier work, and so I speed the process up now because I confirmed
it enough times, is that you can say to the core, "Core, I want you
to look -- there's this robot blocking the way in some way, blocking
the progress. Go around and look at the back of the head and tell me
what you notice on the back of the head or the neck." I just ask it
very non-leading like that and what's commonly said to me is that there
were wires or a switch. So I'll tell them, "Hold the wires or flip the
switch and it will immobilize the robot and give me a yes- signal when
you've done it." Pretty soon you get a yes- signal. "Great. Now that
the robot is immobilized, I want you to look inside the robot and tell
me what you see."
It's generally
one or several children. I have them remove the children. I do a little
hypnotic magic and ask the core to use a laser and vaporize the robot
so nothing is left. They're usually quite amazed that this works, as
have been a number of therapists.
[Pause]
Now there
are many different layers of this stuff is the problem. Let me come
over to the overhead and give some ideas about them. What we have up
here are innumerable alters.
I'll tell
you one of the fascinating things I've seen. I remember a little over
a year ago coming in to see some cases, some of the tough cases at a
dissociative-disorders unit of a couple of the finest of the MPD therapists
in this country, who are always part of all the international meetings,
have lectured internationally. We worked and I look at some of their
patients. They were amazed at certain things because they had not been
aware of this before. As we worked with some of the patients and confirmed
it, I remember one woman who'd been inpatient for three years, still
was inpatient. Another who had one intensive year of inpatient work
with all the finest MPD therapy you can imagine -- abreactions, integrations,
facilitating cooperation, art therapy, on and on and on, journaling,
intensively for one inpatient year followed by an intensive year of
outpatient therapy two, three hours a week. In both patients we found
out that all of this great work had done nothing but deal with the alters
up here and had not touched the mind-control programming. In fact it
was not only intact, but we found that the one who was outpatient was
having her therapy monitored every session by her mother, out-of-state,
over the telephone, and that she still had intact suggestions that had
been give to her at a certain future time to kill her therapist.
Now one
of the things that I would very carefully check is, I would suggest
that you ask the core, not just the unconscious mind, ask the core,
"Is there any part inside that continues to have contact with people
associated with the Cult? Is there any part inside who goes to Cult
rituals or meetings? Is there a recording device inside of Mary," if
that's the host's name, "a recording device inside so that someone can
find out the things that are said in sessions?" This doesn't mean they're
monitored. Many of them just simply have it. "Is there someone who debriefs
some part inside for what happens in our therapy sessions?" I have the
very uncomfortable feeling from some past experience that when you look
at this you will find the large proportion of ritual-abuse victims in
this country are having their ongoing therapy monitored.
I remember
a woman who came in about twenty-four years old, claimed her father
was a Satanist. Her parents divorced when she was six. After that it
would only when her father had visitation and he would take her to rituals
sometimes up until age fifteen. She said, "I haven't gone to anything
since I was fifteen." Her therapist believed this at face value. We
sat in my office. We did a two-hour inquiry using hypnosis. We found
the programming present. In addition to that we found that every therapy
session was debriefed and in fact they had told her to get sick and
not come to the appointment with me.
Another
one had been told that I was Cult and that if she came I would know
that she'd been told not to come and I would punish her. If anything
meaningful comes out in a patient who's being monitored like that --
from what I've learned thus far, they're tortured with electric shocks
-- my belief is if they're in that situation you can't do meaningful
therapy other than being supportive and caring and letting them know
you care a lot and you'll be there to support them. But I wouldn't try
to work with any kind of deep material or deprogramming with them because
I think it can do nothing but get them tortured and hurt unless they
can get into a safe, secure inpatient unit for an extended period of
time to do some of the work required.
I have
a feeling that when you make inquiries you're going to find that probably
greater than fifty percent of these patients, if they're bloodline,
meaning mother or dad or both involved, will be monitored on some ongoing
basis. [Pause] Now when you come below the alters, you then have Alpha,
Beta, Delta, Theta, so and so forth, the Greek-letter programming and
they will then have backup programs. There will typically be an erasure
code for the backups. There may be one code that combines all the backups
into one and then an erasure code for them, simply one code that erases
all the backups. So I will get the code for, let's say, Omega and for
all the Omega backups at the same time. After I've asked "What will
happen if I give this," I will give the code and then I will say, "What
are you experiencing?" They often describe computer whirring, things
erasing, explosions inside, all sorts of interesting things. I've had
some therapists come back and say, "My Lord, I had never said anything
about robots she said something about robots vaporizing."
I remember
one therapist who'd been with me in several hypnosis workshops and consulted
with me about a crisis MPD situation. I told her to inquire about Alpha,
Beta, Delta, Theta. She did. She got back to me saying, "Yeah, I got
an indication it's there. What is it?" I said, "I'm not going to tell
you. Go back and inquire about some of this." We set an appointment
for a week or so hence. She got back with me and said, "I asked what
Theta was and she said, 'psychic killers.' I asked her what Delta was
and she said 'killers.'" Okay. So I told her about some of this stuff
for a two-hour consult.
She called
back and she said, "This seemed too fantastic. I heard this and I thought,
'Has Cory been working too hard?'" she said, I'm embarrassed to admit
it, but she said, "I held you in high professional regard, but this
just sounded so off in the twilight zone that I really thought, 'Is
he having a nervous breakdown or something?'" She said, "But I respected
you enough to ask about this." She said, "I asked another MPD patient
and she didn't have any of this." So in this patient she started describing
things and how she worked, for example, with an erasure and she was
describing things like robots vaporizing and kinds of things. She said,
"I hadn't told her about any of these things." Well, here's the problem.
There are different layers and I think some of them are designed to
keep us going in circles forever. They figured we probably, in most
cases, wouldn't get below the alters which they purposefully created.
The way
you create Manchurian Candidates is you divide the mind. It's part of
what the Intelligence Community wanted to look at. If you're going to
get an assassin, you're going to get somebody to go do something, you
divide the mind. It fascinates me about cases like the assassination
of Robert Kennedy, where Bernard Diamond, on examining Sirhan Sirhan
found that he had total amnesia of the killing of Robert Kennedy, but
under hypnosis could remember it. But despite suggestions he would be
able to consciously remember, could not remember a thing after was out
of hypnosis. I'd love to examine Sirhan Sirhan.
It appears
that below this we've got some other layers. One is called "Green Programming"
it appears. Isn't it interesting that the doctor's name is Dr. Green?
One of the questions in a way that does not contaminate is after I've
identified some of this stuff is there and they've given me a few right
answers about what some of it is, "If there were a doctor associated
with this programming and his name were a color, you know, like Dr.
Chartreuse or something, if his name were a color, what color would
the color be?"
Now once
in a while I've had some other colors mentioned in about three or four
patients that I felt were trying to dissimulate in some way and I don't
really believe had this. In one case I got another color and I found
out later it was a doctor whose name was a color who was being trained
by Dr. Green almost thirty years ago and he supervised part of the programming
of this woman under this doctor. I remember one woman couldn't come
up with anything. No alter would speak up with anything. I said, "Okay,"
and we went on to some other material. About two minutes later she said,
"Green. Do you mean Dr. Green?" We found this all over.
There appears
to be some Green Programming below that and I suspect that you get down
to fewer and more central programs the deeper you go. Well, all Green
Programming is Ultra-Green and the Green Tree. Cabalistic mysticism
is mixed all into this. If you're going to work with this you need to
pick up a couple of books on the Cabala. One is by a man named Dion
Fortune called "Qabala" with a "q," Dion Fortune. Another is by Ann
Huffer-Heller and it's called "The Kabbalah." I knew nothing about the
Cabala. It was interesting. A patient had sat in my waiting area, got
there considerably early and drew a detailed multicolored Cabalistic
Tree over two years ago. It took me two months to figure out what it
was. Finally, showing it to somebody else who said, "You know? That
looks an awful lot like the Cabala Tree" and that rang a bell with some
esoteric in an old book and I dug it out. That was the background of
Dr. Green.
Now the
interesting thing about the Green Tree is his original name was Greenbaum.
What does "greenbaum" mean in German? Green Tree, Ultra-Tree and the
Green Tree. I've also had patients who didn't appear to know that his
original name was Greenbaum, volunteered that there were parts inside
named Mr. Greenbaum. Now let me give you some information about parts
inside that may be helpful to you if you're going to inquire about these
things, because my experience is one part will give you some information
and either run dry or get defensive or scared and stop. and so you punt
and you make an end run and you come around the other direction, you
find another part. I'll tell you several parts to ask for and ask if
there's a part by this name. And, by the way, when I'm screening patients
and fiddling around with this, I throw in a bunch of spurious ones and
ask, "Is there a part inside by this name and by that name" as a check
on whether or not it appears genuine. For example. "In addition to the
core," I ask, "is there a part inside named Wisdom?" Wisdom is a part
of the Cabalistic Tree. Wisdom, I've often found, will be helpful and
give you a lot of information. "Is there a part inside named Diana?"
I mean I may throw in all sorts of things. "Is there a part inside named
Zelda?" I've never encountered one yet! Just to see what kind of answers
we get. I try to do this carefully. Diana is a part that, in the Cabalistic
system, is associated with a part called the Foundation. You will be
fascinated to know that. Remember the Process Church? Roman Polanski's
wife, Sharon Tate, was killed by the Manson Family who were associated
with the Process Church? A lot of prominent people in Hollywood were
associated and then they went underground, the books say, in about seventy-eight
and vanished? Well, they're alive and well in southern Utah. We have
a thick file in the Utah Department of Public Safety documenting that
they moved to southern Utah, north of Monument Valley, bought a movie
ranch in the desert, renovated it, expanded it, built a bunch of buildings
there, carefully monitored so that very few people go out of there and
no one can get in and changed their name.
A key word
in their name is "Foundation." The Foundation. There are some other
words. The Foundation is part of the Tree. So you can ask, "Is there
something inside known as The Foundation?" I might ask other things
to throw people off. "Is there something known as the Sub-Basement?"
Well, maybe they'll conceive of something. Or "Is there something known
as the Walls?" There are a variety of questions you can come up with,
to sort of screen some things. I've also found that there will often
be a part called "Black Master," a part called "Master Programmer,"
and that there will be computer operators inside. How many of you have
come into computer things in patients? There will typically be computer
operators: Computer Operator Black, Computer Operator Green, Computer
Operator Purple. Sometimes they'll have numbers instead, sometimes they'll
be called Systems Information Directors. You can find out the head one
of those. There'll be a source of some information for you. I will ask
inside, "Is there a part inside named Dr. Green?" You'll find that there
are, if they have this kind of programming, in my experience. Usually
with a little work and reframing, you can turn them and help them to
realize that they were really a child-part who's playing a role and
they had no choice then, but they do now. You know, they played their
role very, very well, but they don't have to continue to play it with
you because they're safe here and in fact,
"If the
Cult simply found out that you talked to me, that they you had shared
information with me, you tell me what would they do to you?" Emphasize
that the only way out is through me and that they need to cooperate
and share information and help me and that I'll help them. So all these
parts can give you various information.
Now they
have tried to protect this very carefully. Let me give you an example
with Ultra-Green. I discovered this -- by the way I used to think this
programming was only in bloodline people. I've discovered it in non-bloodline
people, but it's a bit different. They don't want it to be just the
same. I don't think you'll find deep things like Ultra-Green and probably
not even Green Programming with non-bloodline people. But let me tell
you something that I discovered first in a non-bloodline and then in
a bloodline.
We were
going along and a patient was close to getting well, approaching final
integration in a non-bloodline and she suddenly started hallucinating
and her fingers were becoming hammers and other things like that. So
I used an affect-bridge and we went back and we found that what happened
was that they gave suggestions, that if she ever got well to a certain
point she would go crazy. The way they did this was they strapped her
down and they gave her LSD when she was eight years old. When she began
hallucinating they inquired about the nature of the hallucinations so
they could utilize them in good Ericsonian fashion and build on them
and then combine the drug-effect with powerful suggestions. "If you
ever get to this point you will go crazy. If you ever get fully integrated
and get well you will go crazy like this and will be locked up in an
institution for the rest of your life. They gave those suggestions vigorously
and repetitively. Finally they introduced other suggestions that, "Rather
than have this happen, it would be easier to just kill yourself." In
a bloodline patient then, as I began inquiring about deep material,
the patient started to experience similar symptoms. We went back and
we found the identical things were done to her.
This was
called the "Green Bomb." B-O-M-B. Lots of interesting internal consistencies
like that play on words with Dr. Greenbaum, his original name. Now in
this case it was done to her at age nine for the first time and then
only hers was different. Hers was a suggestion for amnesia. "If you
ever remember anything about Ultra-Green and the Green Tree you will
go crazy. You will become a vegetable and be locked up forever." Then
finally the suggestions added, "And it'll be easier to just kill yourself
than have that happen to you, if you ever remember it."
At age
twelve then, three years later, they used what sounds like an Amytol
interview to try to breach the amnesia and find out if they could. They
couldn't. So then they strapped her down again, took and gave her something
to kind of paralyze her body, gave her LSD, an even bigger dose and
reinforced all the suggestions. Did a similar thing at the age of sixteen.
So these are some of the kind of booby traps you run into.
There
are a number of cases where they combined powerful drug effects like
this with suggestions to keep us from discovering some of this deeper
level stuff.
What's
the bottom? Your guess is as good as mine but I can tell you that I've
had a lot of therapists who were stymied with these cases who were going
nowhere. In fact someone here that I told some basic information about
this to in Ohio a couple of months ago said it opened all sorts of things
up in a patient who'd been going nowhere. That's an often common thing.
I think that we can move down to deeper levels and if we deal with some
of the deeper level stuff it may destroy all the stuff above it. But
we don't even know that yet. In some of the patients I'm working with
we have pretty much dealt with a lot of the top-level stuff. I'll tell
you how we've done some of that. We'll take and erase one system like
Omega. Then we will have a huge abreaction of all the memories and feelings
in a fractionated abreaction associated with those parts.
I typically
find I'll say to them, "Now that we've done this are there any other
memories and feelings that any parts that were Omega still have?" The
answer's usually "No." At that point I will say, "I usually find at
this point in time the majority, if not all, of those parts that used
to be Omega no longer feel a desire or need to be different, realizing
that you split off originally by them and want to go home to Mary and
become one with her again." I use the concept often now -- which came
from a patient -- of going home and becoming one with her. "Going back
from whence you came" is another phrase I'll use with them. "Are there
any Omega parts inside who do not feel comfortable with that or have
reservations or concerns about that?" If there are we talk to them.
We deal with them. A few may not integrate. My experience is most of
the time they'll integrate and we may integrate twenty-five parts at
once in a polyfragmented complex MPD.
I think
it is vitally important to abreact the feelings before you go on. Also
for many patients it hasn't seemed to matter the order we go in but
I've found a couple where it has. If it doesn't seem to matter I'll
typically go Omega, then Delta because they have more violence potential,
then Gamma to get rid of the self- deception stuff. What I will
do before I just assume anything and do that, is once we've done Omega
and showed them that success can occur and something can happen and
they feel relief after, I will say to them, "I want to ask the core
-- through the fingers -- is there a specific order in which programs
must be erased?" You know maybe it doesn't matter but most of the time
I found "No." There are cases where we found "Yes." I recommend doing
one or two or three of those because they'll produce relief and and
a sense of optimism in the patient. But then I would recommend starting
to probe for the deeper level things and getting their input and recommendations
about the order in which we go. Question?
Q: What
has been the typical age and typical gender of this type of person?
Dr.H: I
know of this being found in men and women. Most of the patients I know
with MPD ritual abuse that are being treated are women, however. I know
of some men being treated where we've found this. A while back I was
talking to a small group of therapists somewhere. I told them about
some of this. In the middle of talking about some of this all the color
drained out of one social worker's face and she obviously had a reaction
and I asked her about and she said, "I'm working with a five-year-old
boy," and she said, "Just in the last few weeks he was saying something
about a Dr. Green."
I went
on a little further and I mentioned some of these things and she just
shook her head again. I said, "What's going on?" She said, "He's been
spontaneously telling me about robots and about Omega." I think you
will find variations of this and that they've changed it, probably every
few years and maybe somewhat regionally to throw us off in various ways
but that certain basics and fundamentals will probably be there. I have
seen this in people up into their forties including people whose parents
were very, very high in the CIA, other sorts of things like that. I've
had some that were originally part of the Monarch Project which is the
name of the government Intelligence project. Question in the back?
Q: I'm
still not grasping how one starts, how you find out how to erase. How
do you get that information?
Dr.H: I
would say, "I want the core, if necessary, using the telepathic communication
ability you have to read minds," because they believe in that kind of
stuff, "so I'll use it..." I was trained in Ericsonian stuff, "...to
obtain for me the erasure code of all Omega programs. When you've done
so, I want the yes-finger to float up." Then I ask them to tell it to
me. "Are there backups for Omega programs?" "Yes." "Okay? How many backups
are there?" "Six," they say, let's say. It's different numbers. "Is
there an erasure code for all the backup programs?" "No." "Is there
an erasure code that combines all the backups into one?" "Yes." "Obtain
that code for me and when you've go it give me the yes-signal again."
It can move almost that fast in some cases where there's not massive
resistance. Question?
Q: Yes,
can you tell me what you know about the risks to the therapist? [Laughter]
Dr.H: You
would have to ask.
Q: Yeah,
I'd like to know that. What kind of data do you have given that you've
had contact with large numbers of people. Not just threats but also
any injury, any family problems that have arisen. That's one question.
A second one is are you aware of anybody that you've treated -- or others
-- with this level of dissociation and trauma that have recovered? Integrated?
Whole and happy?
Dr.H: Okay,
I have one non-bloodline multiple, complex multiple who had this kind
of programming where they have a lot of access to the patient as neighbors
and where the doctor, by the way, you'll find physicians heavily
involved. They've encouraged their own to go to medical school, to prescribe
drugs to take care of their own, to get access to medical technology
and be above suspicion.
There have
been a couple, in fact, in Utah who've been nailed now. We now in Utah
have two full time ritual-abuse investigators with statewide jurisdiction
under the Attorney General's Office to do nothing but investigate this.
[Applause]
Okay? In
a poll done in the State of Utah in January by the major newspaper and
television station, they found that ninety percent of Utahans believe
that ritual abuse is genuine and real. Not all of them believe it's
a frequent occurrence but some of that was imparted from two years of
work by the Governor Commission on Ritual Abuse, interviewing, talking,
meeting people, gathering data.
Now when
people say, by the way, "There's no evidence. They've never found a
body," that's baloney. They found a body in Idaho of a child. They've
had a case last summer that was convicted on first-degree murder charges,
two people that the summer before that were arrested where the teenaged
girl's finger and head were in the refrigerator and they were convicted
of first-degree murder in Detroit. There have been cases and bodies.
Back to
risk. I know of no therapist who's been harmed. But patients inform
us that there will come a future time where we could be at risk of being
assassinated by patients who've been programmed to kill at a certain
time anyone that they've told and any member of their own family who's
not active. If that would come about is speculative. Who knows for
sure? Maybe, but I don't think it's entirely without risk. A question
in the back?
Q: It seems
to me that there seems to be some similarity between these kinds of
programming and those people who claim that they've been abducted by
spaceships and have had themselves physically probed and reprogrammed
and all of that sort of thing. Since Cape Canaveral is across the Florida
peninsula from me and I don't think that they've reported any spaceships
lately, I was just wondering is there any sort of relationship between
this and that?
Dr.H: I'll
share my speculation, that comes from others really. I've not dealt
with any of those people. However, I know a therapist that I know and
trust and respect who I've informed about all this a couple of years
ago and has found it in a lot of patients and so on, who is firmly of
the belief that those people are in fact ritual-abuse victims who have
been programmed with that sort of thing to destroy all their credibility.
If somebody's coming in and reporting abduction by a flying sauce who's
going to believe them on anything else in the future? Also as a kind
of thing that can be pointed to and said, "This is as ridiculous as
that."
All I know
is that I recently had a consult, a telephone consult, with a therapist
where I had been instructing her about some of this kind of stuff. When
we were consulting at one point in the fifth or sixth interview she
said, "By the way, do you know anything about this topic?" I said, "Well,
not really" and shared with her what I shared with you. I said, "If
it were me being with this guy..." that she'd been seeing for a couple
of months, I said, "I would ask inside for the core to take control
of finger-signals and inquire about Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta." She
proceeded to do all that, got back to me a week later and said, "Boy,
were you on target. There is a part inside named Dr. Green. There's
this kind of programming."
Yes?
Q: What's
the difference between this kind of program and cult-type abuse and
Satanic abuse in the kind of cults with the candles and the...
Dr.H: This
type of programming will be done in the cults with the candles and all
the rest. My impression is this is simply done in people where they
have great access to them or they're bloodline and their parents are
in it and they can be raised in it from an early age. If they are bloodline
they are the chosen generation. If not, they're expendable and they
are expected to die and not get well. There will be booby traps in your
way if they aren't non-bloodline people that when they get well they
will kill themselves. I'll tell you just a little about that. My belief
is that some people that have ritual abuse and don't have this have
been ritually abused but they may be may be part of a non-mainstream
group. The Satanism comes in the overall philosophy overriding all
of this.
People
say, "What's the purpose of it?" My best guess is that the purpose
of it is that they want an army of Manchurian Candidates, ten of
thousands of mental robots who will do prostitution, do child pornography,
smuggle drugs, engage in international arms smuggling, do snuff films,
all sorts of very lucrative things and do their bidding and eventually
the megalomaniacs at the top believe they'll create a Satanic Order
that will rule the world. One last question. Then I'll give you
couple of details and we need to shift gears.
Q: You
have suggested and implied that at some point at a high level of
the U.S. Government there was support of this kind of thing. I know
we're short of time, but could you just say a few words about the documentation
that may exist for that suggestion?
Dr.H: There
isn't great documentation of it. It comes from victims who are imperiled
witnesses. The interesting thing is how many people have described the
same scenario and how many people that we have worked with who have
had relatives in NASA, in the CIA and in the Military, including very
high-ups in the Military.
I can tell
you that a friend and colleague of mine who has probably the equivalent
of half the table space on that far side of the room filled with boxes
with declassified documents from mind-control research done in the past
which has been able to be declassified over a considerable -- couple
of decades -- period and has read more government documents about mind
control than anyone else, has a brief that has literally been sent in
the past week and a half asking for all information to be declassified
about the Monarch Project for us to try to find out more.
Now let
me just mention something about some of the stuff that my experience
is in several patients now that you may run into late in the process.
I know I'm throwing a lot at you in a hurry. Some of it is completely
foreign and some of you may think, "Gosh, could any of this be true?"
Just, you know, ask. Find out in your patients and you may be lucky
and there isn't any of this. Somewhere at a deep level you may run into
some things like this. Let me describe to you, if I can find my pen,
the system in one patient. One patient I had treated for quite a while,
a non-bloodline person.
We had
done what appeared to be successful work and reached final integration.
She came back to me early last year and said she was symptomatic with
some things. I started inquiring. I found a part there we'd integrated.
The part basically said, "There was other stuff that I couldn't tell
you about and you integrated me and so I had to split off." I had done
some inquiring about things like Alpha, Beta as a routine part of it
and found they were there and I said to this part, "Why didn't you tell
me about this stuff?" She said, "Well, we gave you some hints but they
went right over your head." Says, "I'm sorry, but we know that you didn't
know enough to help us but now we know you can." So the stuff started
coming out. It was interesting.
She described
the overall system -- if I can remember it now -- as being like this.
The circle represented harm to the body, a system of alters whose primary
purpose was to hurt her including symptoms like Munchhausen's, self-mutilation,
other kinds of things. Each of the triangles represented still another
different system. She said, "With the exception of me," this one part,
"you dealt with the whole circle with the work that we did before but
you didn't touch the rest of the stuff."
Okay. In
the middle of all this was still another system consisting of the Cabalistic
Tree, which some of you are aware, looks approximately like this with
lines in between and so on and so forth. There's a rough approximation.
That represented another system. Then once we got past that she implied
that this entire thing was somehow encompassed by, what do you call
it, an hourglass. I kept thinking we were at final integration then
I'd find some other parts. This person had an eagle-eye husband that
was watching for certain things that we found to be reliable indicators.
So often I would get evidence of dissociation within a few days. It
would suddenly be picked up. You know, what we found was I continued
to find evidence of dissociation and I'd find parts. Finally this part,
as I got angry with him and said, "Why when I give these ideomotor inquiries
am I getting lied to?" This part said, "Because you don't understand.
You're going to get us all killed."
We started
talking and then she basically said, "It's been programed so that if
you succeed and think you've succeeded, you will fail. They build it
in as a way to laugh at you, that if you ever get us integrated, we
will die."
Here's
what she said, this part said, "I'm one of twelve disciples," and I've
seen this in others, twelve disciples within this hourglass each of
whom had to memorize a disciple-lesson which were basic Satanic kind
of premises, philosophies of life like "be good to those who hurt you,
hate those who are nice to you," on and on and on. There may be two
or three sentences like that associated with each that they had to memorize
them.
They said,
"We are like grains of sand falling and when the last grain of sand
falls, there's Death." I said, "Is Death a part?" "Yes. When the last
grain of sand falls the Sleeping Giant awakens." The Sleeping Giant
was Death, who was then to kill them on Day-One or Day-Six after awakening
unless certain things were followed and we did some of those.
Well we
also found Death had a sister as a backup, used with mirrors to create
the sister part. We had to get past and deal with that too. Death had
certain things that they said had to be done to integrate. I started
to say, "Oh, come on, they lied to you before." She said, "Wait a minute.
This what they said you'd say. They said that no doctor would ever believe
that they had to go these extremes to get us well and that's part of
the reason they'd fail." I said, "Well, tell me, tell me again."
She said,
"I have to be dressed all in red. I have to have Demerol onboard, have
taken Demerol. A code has to be given and it has to be in a room that's
totally dark. It has to happen on Day-One or Day-Six after this part's
been awakened."
I said
what I'd have to lose? I had a psychiatrist give her a little Demerol.
We used the code. My office didn't have any windows anyway. It was pretty
easy. Oh, and there had to be four, I think, candles lit. Well, fine.
So we did it and everything went well. Maybe it would have gone well
if we hadn't done it, but I decided not to take the chance and to trust
the patient maybe. Well, so we go on and then we find another part.
There's Death And Destruction, another backup also with a sister that
we had to get through. In fact, I think there were two backups there.
Interestingly, the very last part was an extremely nice part, made especially
that way so that they wouldn't want to lose them because they would
be so adorable and so loving and so sweet that they wouldn't want to
maybe get rid of them. Then we found that she continued to have these
feelings with this last part left now of darkness and blackness inside.
What did we find? A curtain.
She said,
"They assumed that if you ever got to this point, you would," and along
the way, by the way, we had encountered this stuff about the LSD stuff,
the Green Bomb programming. The message was that she said, "There is
a curtain behind which are the remaining feelings and memories, but
it can't be opened from the middle. It's like a stage curtain. It has
to opened this way," that it can't be opened. They assumed that you
would try to deal with all the feelings. That can't be opened until
you've dealt with that last part and they've integrated. So far it looks
like we've got integration that's holding. So I found Death And Destruction
and the Hourglass in non-bloodline.
"The Tree
and the Hourglass," this patient informed me, "were made of sand because
we were meant to die. We're expendable. We're the unchosen generation."
I've heard
variously that it's crystals or blood that fills the Hourglass in bloodline
people. By the way, you can do real simple things like turn the Hourglass
on its side so nothing can fall out, so time stands still to be
able to do certain kinds of work. Spread the grains of sand on the seashore
so that they can't be numbered and the time will not be counted. Got
that idea from a ritual-abuse victim who had seen some of this kind
of programming done that another therapist was seeing.
So those
would be just a few other hints about things that may be helpful or
meaningful. We're talking about very intensive things and at deep levels
to to me this give us two things. One thing it gives to me is hope because
it gets to material and it makes progress like nothing else we've ever
seen with these people who have it. The second thing it does for me
is it demoralizes me, too, because although three years ago I had a
pretty good idea about the extent and breadth of what they'd one to
these victims, I had no real appreciation for the depth and breadth
and intensity of what they'd done.
I want
to come back to the other question over here now. The other question
is how many of them can get well?
We don't
know. In most things in the mental health profession we accept two-thirds
of the patients are going to improve, maybe seventy percent. There's
very little we can get everybody well. I think one of the sad things
we have to face is that many of these patients will probably never be
well. My personal belief is that if they are being messed with their
only hope of getting well is if they can somehow get out of contact.
Now I know
patients who've gone to other states and simply had deep-level alters
pick up the phone and call and said, "This is our new address and phone
number" so that they could be picked up locally. I mean in an inpatient
unit for an extended period of time. If they are in a Cult from their
area and they are still being monitored and messed with, my own personal
opinion is we can't get them well and can't offer more than humanitarian
caring and supportiveness.
Lots of
therapists do not like to hear that. That's my opinion. I believe that
if somehow they're lucky enough to be wealthy enough to have protection,
to have somehow gotten away in some way and we can work with them without
being messed with, that they have a chance to reach some semblance of
normality and livability with enough intensive work. My own personal
belief is I don't think anybody with this kind of programming is well
in this country yet. There are some who are well along the way. I've
got a couple who are well along in their work and have done a tremendous
amount, but they're clearly not well yet.
Q: Could
you speculate on the relationship between this stuff and the fantasy
games that have been proliferating, Dungeons and Dragons and that sort
of thing?
Dr.H: Well,
there are a lot of things out there to cue people. You want to see a
great movie, interesting movie, to cue people? Go see "Trancers II."
You can rent it in your video shop. Came out last fall. One night in
sheer desperation for something at the video store, you know? Nine o'clock
on Friday night. Everything's gone. I rented a couple of movies and
one of them is that. Fascinating. They're talking about Green World
Order. Yes, "Trancers II." And who is the production company? Full Moon
Productions. I couldn't see much cuing in "Trancers I," but who's the
production company in "Trancers I"? Alter Productions. There are lots
of things around that are cuing.
There's
an interesting person in the late sixties who talked about the Illuminati.
Have any of you ever heard of the Illuminati with regard to the Cult?
Had a patient bring that up to me just about exactly two years ago.
We've now had other stuff come out from other patients. Appears to be
the name of the international world leadership. There appear to be Illuminatic
Counsels in several parts of the world and one internationally. The
name of the international leadership of the Cult supposedly. Is this
true? well, I don't know. It's interesting we're getting some people
who are trying to work without cuing who are saying some very similar
things. There was an old guy in Hollywood in the late sixties who talked
about the infiltration of Hollywood by the Illuminati.
Certainly
what some patients have said is all of this spook stuff, horror stuff,
possession and everything else that's been popularized in the last twenty
years in Hollywood is in order to soften up the public so that when
a Satanic world order takes over, everyone will have been desensitized
to so many of these things, plus to continually cue lots of people out
there. is that true?
Well, I
can't definitely tell you that it is. What I can say is I now believe
that ritual-abuse programming is widespread, is systematic, is very
organized from highly esoteric information which is published nowhere,
has not been on any book or talk show, that we have found all around
this country and at least one foreign country.
Let's
take a couple of quick questions and we need to get on to other material.
Yes?
Q: Do you
have any techniques for decreasing your level of uncertainty that a
patient is or is not being still tampered with, "messed with," as you
said?
Dr.H: Just
that I would ask several of the parts I've inquired about, Core, Diana,
Wisdom, Master Programmer, several parts inside I would ask about these
sorts of things and I will keep asking it. As you do additional work
and get a bit further, I would ask again to find out. In the back?
Q: I wonder
if you've heard or you know of the Martin Luther Bloodline?
Dr.H: The
what?
Q: Martin
Luther Bloodline?
Dr.H: I
know nothing about Martin Luther Bloodline. I'll give you one other
quick tip. Ask him about an identification code. There's an identification
code that people have. It will involve their birth date. It may
involve places where they were programmed and it will usually involve
a number in there that will be their birth order, like zero-two if they
were second-born. It will usually involve a number that represents the
number of generations in the Cult, if they are bloodlines. I've seen
up to twelve now, twelve generations.
Q: I have
seen a lot of the things you've been describing today in several patients.
I wanted to ask you a question about the Seven Systems. You mentioned
something about systems here. Are there Seven Systems?
Dr.H: There
has been that described in some patients, yes, the Seven Systems.
Q: Could
you say what that is or a little diagram?
Dr.H: I
don't think we know enough to know what it is, honestly. I think it
may have to do with Seven Cabalistic Trees.
Q: Have
you ever had any evidence where any of these people have been tagged
and there have been anything of their body- parts that might be related
to this, private parts in particular?
Dr.H: Well,
there are certainly people that have had tattoos, that have had a variety
of other kinds of things, some of which have been, you know, documented
in cases, but I mean to say, well, maybe they did that to themselves
or had it done consciously to really prove something, not that occurs
to right off the bat. Let me just take this one last question back and
we need to go on to other material because we're never going to get
through it all. I'll just ask you to hold your question.
Q: It's
not a question but I wanted to say for myself, personally, and perhaps
for others here as well, I wanted to thank you very sincerely for taking
this time to come forward.
[Applause]
Dr.H: Well...
[Applause]
Q: Does
anyone want to join us for a standing ovation for this material? It's
wonderful.
[Sustained
applause]
Dr.H: A
dear friend who's one of the top people in the field, who I know has
had death threats, but I know struggled for professional credibility
in believing in MPD and was harshly criticized for even believing in
that ten and fifteen years ago, and struggled to a point of professional
credibility. I think in his heart of hearts he knows it's true, but
he will say things like, "I wouldn't be surprised to find tomorrow it
was an international conspiracy and I wouldn't be surprised to find
tomorrow that it is an urban myth and rumor."
He tries
to stay right on the fence and the reason is because it's controversial,
because there is a campaign underway saying these all false memories
induced by, along with incest and everything else, by "Oprah" and by
books like "The Courage to Heal" and by naive therapists using hypnosis.
It's controversial.
My personal
opinion has come to be if they're going to kill me, they're going to
kill me. There's going to be an awful lot of information that's been
put away that'll go to investigative reporters and multiple investigative
agencies, if it happens, and an awful lot of people like you , I hope,
that if I ever have an accident will be pushing for a very large-scale
investigation. I think we have to stand up as some kind of moral conscience
at some point and I tried to wait until we had gotten enough verification
from independent places to have some real confidence that this was widespread.
I know we've gone like a house afire to try to pack as much as I could
in for you. I hope it's given you some things to think about and some
new ideas and I appreciate being with you.
[Long sustained
applause]