Well, Ron [Tyler], this is another very interesting post. I will respond here and post said response in the MSN club as that is the one we have set up as a debate forum, not this club, but I will answer this post here as well. Let us take a look at some of the statements and ideas you have put forth.

+++I will propose ... and first wife had better agree." Such a position, attitude and behavior is a clear violation of Romans 14. If there is no Biblically compelling reason and if there in no real Biblical need for a man to take another wife in Biblical polygyny, then I believe Romans 14 governs the situation where a man wants to take another wife in Biblical polygyny and his present wife is sincerely opposed to the idea, sincerely offended and grieved by the idea, and is falling into sin because of his desire for another wife along side her.

You have yet to provide scriptural evidence of such compelling need to marry. The scriptures you keep quoting in 1 Corinthians that counsel marriage rather than falling into immorality are more an exhortation to celibacy than to mandatory marriage if you read the whole passage. The Apostle Paul states plainly that it would be better if all were as he was, but that if they could not control themselves, it was better to marry than to burn. This cannot logically be seen as an emergency command to marry, but more as a contingency plan if unable to exercise self-control and a statement that marriage in this instance is not a sin. Remember Ron, one of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control so utilizing the 1 Corinthians passage as proof text for the idea that emergency marriage is a commandment is fallacious thinking indeed.

PARAPHRASED FOR APPLICATION: Rom 14: 1 ¶ Now her that is weak in the faith receive, [but] not to the determining of questions of reasoning [about doubtful things] . 2 One woman is assured that she may [practice polygyny]; but the weak sister [practices monogyny]. 3 She that [is in polygyny] must not make little of her that [is in monogyny]; and she that [is monogynous] must not judge her that [is polygynous]: for God has received her. 4 Who are you that judges the servant of another? to her own master she stands or falls. And she shall be made to stand; for the Lord is able to make her stand. 5 One woman esteems [monogyny to be better than polygyny]; another esteems [polygyny and monogyny to be equal options]. Let each be fully persuaded in her own mind. 6 She that regards [polygyny], regards it to the Lord. And she that [is monogynous, is monogynous] to the Lord, for she gives God thanks; and she that [is polygynous], it is to the Lord she [is polygynous], and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to herself, and none dies to herself. 8 For both if we should [be polygynous], it is to the Lord we [should be polygynous]; and if we should [be monogynous], it is to the Lord we [should be monogynous]: both if we should [be polygynous] then, and if we should [be monogynous], we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ has died and lived again, that he might rule over both [the mongynous] and [the polygynous]. 10 But you, why judge you your [sister]? or again, you, why do you make little of thy [sister]? for we shall all be placed before the judgment-seat of God. 11 For it is written, *I* live, saith the Lord, that to me shall bow every knee, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then each of us shall give an account concerning himself to God. 13 Let us no longer therefore judge one another [about polygyny and monogyny]; but judge ye this rather, not to out a stumbling-block [or an obstacle in the way of another which could cause them to trip, stumble, fall into the sin of doing doubtful things] or a fall-trap [with a trap stick that would cause one to stumble into the sin of acting with doubts, or a trap or snare by which one is drawn into error or sin of doing something with doubts] before his brother [or sister]. 14 I know, and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself [including of course polygyny]; except to her who reckons anything to be unclean [including polygyny], to that woman polygyny is unclean. 15 For if on account of [polygyny] your brother [or sister] is grieved, you walk no longer according to love. Destroy not him or her with your [polygyny] for whom Christ has died. 16 Let not then your [conviction that polygyny is] good be evil spoken of; 17 for the kingdom of God is not [polygyny] and [monogyny], but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For she that in this [controversy about polygyny] serves the Christ is acceptable to God and approved of men. 19 So then let us pursue the things which tend to peace, and things whereby one shall build up another. 20 For the sake of [polygyny] do not destroy the work of God. All things [including polygyny] indeed are pure; but it is evil to that woman who [becomes polygynous] while stumbling [in sin] because of her doubts about its rightness. 21 It is right not to [take a second wife], nor [take a third wife], nor do anything in which thy brother [or sister] stumbles [striking the toe of one's conscience against an obstacle inducing one to sin by acting in doubt], or is offended [or stumbles or is enticed to act without faith or think unfavourably or unjustly of another and so displeased and indignant], or is made weak [morally feeble, without strength, powerless]. 22 Have you faith [to believe polygyny is right and so practice it]? Have that conviction to yourself before God. Blessed is the one who does not judge oneself in what [belief or practice of polygyny] one allows [with a firm and convinced faith in its rightness]. 23 But one that doubts [about the rightness of polygyny], if [that] one [becomes polygynous], [that one] is condemned; because that one became polygynous not because of faith [in its rightness]; but whatever [behavior or thought does not originate from] faith [in its rightness before God] is sin. 15:1 ¶ But *we* ought, we that are strong [in our polygynous beliefs], to bear the infirmities of the weak [in this aspect of the faith], and not to please ourselves. 2 Let each one of us please his neighbour with a view to what is good, to edification. 3 For the Christ also did not please himself

Again with this most creative paraphrasing of the fourteenth chapter of Romans. I would encourage all of our readers to read this passage for themselves. I have thoroughly dismantled this line of reasoning in my response to this same post on the MSN club so I will not repeat it here verse for verse, but again, read the chapter. We must take scripture as it stands, not "paraphrase" (read "rewrite" or "mutilate") it until we have made it say what we want it to.

+++Please note that the writer of that paragraph gives not one scripture as the authoritative basis for his conclusions. This is what the Bible calls leaning to one's own understanding, the failure to acknowledge His Word in all our ways (Prov 3:5,6), the teaching the doctrines of humans as if they were the commandments of God Mark 7:1-17). While many of the standards presented are very similar to those required of elders, pastors, bishops and official church leaders (1 Tim 3; Titus 1), God never requires these standards of husbands and fathers for them to be recognized as heads and teachers in their families, for them to earn or deserve the submission and obedience of their wives and children. Of course wives and children have the recourse of Matt 18:5-8 if their "believing" husbands/fathers are unstable, self-contradictory, inconsistent, bad teachers, undependable, stubborn and unteachable. Of course wives and children have the recourse of 1 Cor 5:3-11 if their "believing" husbands/fathers are verbally abusive in their bad teaching.

Well, first of all, there is no such verse as Mark 17:1-17. Noone is disputing that we are to acknowledge His word in all our ways, what we are discussing is the difference between what you see His word saying, and what we see Hís word saying. Also, you contradict yourself when you say that submission is required no matter what and then state that women and children do have recourse as you stated above. As far as what Yahweh requires husbands, let us look at that. You seem to think that being male gives you the right to act any way you want to and that just isn't so. Let us see what the Word has to say:

1 Peter 3:7-9

You husbands likewise, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with a weaker vessel, since she is a woman; and grant her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered. NAS

To sum up, let all be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kind-hearted, and humble in spirit; not returning evil for evil, or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing

Eph 5:25-6:1

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her; that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she should be holy and blameless. So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Nevertheless let each individual among you also love his own wife even as himself; and let the wife see to it that she respect her husband. NAS

Col 3:19

Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

NIV

1 Peter 3:7

Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

NIV

These are just the verses that deal specifically with a husband's behavior. Where in the world did you get the idea that there were no requirements for a man to be a husband, particularly a polygamous husband? That is just not borne out in scripture. And remember, I am still waiting for this iron-clad scriptural command to emergency marriage that you keep going on about.

+++It is false teaching, unscriptural teaching and ungodly teaching to teach that before a child or wife have to obey Christ's command to submit themselves to their parents or husbands (Ephes 5:22-6:5), the parent or husband have to earn the right to the submission of their children or wives. Romans 13:1-6 and 1 Peter 2:13-15 were given by Jesus to His children when the rulers they were being commanded to obey were such as Nero and Pilate and Herod. No matter how bad the rulers are who
Jesus has appointed over a country (Hitler, Stalin, Mao), He commands that we obey them as long as what they command us to do is not contrary to His Word and commands.

Rom 13:1-7

Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil. Wherefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

NAS

This passage is talking about the civil authorities, Ron, not about marriages. The passage in 1 Peter is the same. Now please don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that it is all right for a wife or children to disobey the husband, but this idea that he is autonomous without having to account to anyone is ludicrous. We need to be careful to interpret scriptures in the context of the passage they are in.

+++Please note what Jesus gave by Peter in 1 Peter 2:19 For this [is] a grace, if for conscience [toward] God anyone endures grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what glory [is it] if you patiently endure [while] sinning and being buffeted? But if you suffer [while] doing good, and patiently endure, this [is] a grace from God. 21 For you were not called to this? For Christ also suffered on our behalf, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps, 22 He who did no sin, nor was guile found in His mouth, 23 who when He was reviled did not revile in return. When He suffered, He did not threaten, but gave [Himself] up to Him who judges righteously. 24 [He] Himself bore our sins in ++++++WHY? 1Pt2:19 For this [is] a grace, if for conscience [toward] God anyone endures grief [because of her husband], suffering wrongfully. 2:20 For what glory [is it] if you patiently endure [grief from you husband while] sinning and being buffeted? But if you suffer [grief from your husband while] doing good, and patiently endure, this [is] a grace from God. 2:21 For you were not called to this [marital suffering]? For Christ also suffered on our behalf, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps [when your husband causes you to suffer], 22 He who did no sin, nor was guile found in His mouth, 2:23 who when He was reviled did not revile in return [so when your husband verbally abuses you, do not verbally abuse him in return]. When He suffered, He did not threaten, but gave [Himself] up to Him who judges righteously [so you also shouldn't threaten your sinning husband]. ***1Peter 3: 1 continued---------------so that if any [husbands] DO NOT OBEY THE WORD, they may also be won without the word by the conduct of the wives, 2 having witnessed your chaste behavior in [the] fear [of God]. 3 Of whom let not be the adorning of garments, or outward braiding of hair and wearing of gold, or of putting on clothing, 4 but [let it be] the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, the meek [strength controlled] and quiet [peaceful] spirit, which is of great price in the sight of God. 5 For so once indeed the holy women hoping in God adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands [by their own choice and even to the perverse, sinning and disobedient ones]; 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord; whose children you became, doing good and fearing no terror.

Now lets look at what the passage actually says.

1 Peter 2:19-3:2

For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a man bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly. For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God. For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

1 Peter 3

In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.

NAS

You are adding to scriptures again. This passage is not talking about marital suffering on the part of the wife but persecution by the civil authorities. Your "paraphrasing" (rewriting/mutilating) makes this passage almost unrecognizable and this is just not permissible.

+++So the writer who required that the husband be godly and virtuous before he is to be obeyed, is totally out of line with Scripture. The Scripture makes it crystal clear that the godly wife chooses to voluntarily submit herself to and obey her husband, when his commands do not require her to disobey Jesus, even when he is PERVERSE AND DISOBEDIENT TO THE WORD HIMSELF.

That a wife is to be obedient to her husband there is no dispute, but what we have to disagree about is whether or not he is requiring her to break the commands of Yah'shua (Jesus). Consider this. Most marriage vows in western culture contain an exclusivity clause as part of the covenants. If that is the case, then the husband CANNOT unilaterally break it. The Apostle Paul is very clear when he classifies covenant-breakers with murderers and fornicators. It seems to me to be a balance to the husband's authority.

Rom 1:29-31

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: KJV

The Apostle Paul makes it clear here that ideally it is better for the unmarried and the widows not to marry. But if they do not have self-control, it is better to marry than to burn. This can hardly be construed as an absolute command to marry.

1 Cor 7:8-9

Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.

NIV

While ideally this is true, humanly speaking, this teaching is in contradiction to 1 Peter 3:1-6, where wives are commanded to submit themselves to dishonorable husbands.

+++The perverse and wilfully disobedient-to-God husbands of 1 Peter 3 would care little for the call of Jehovah, to polygyny or to fasting and prayer. Yet if these perverse and wilfully disobedient-to-God husbands of 1 Peter 3 should chose in their perversity and disobedience to impose polygyny on their godly wives, their wives would be required to submit themselves to their polygyny, being godly wives after the manner of 1 Peter 2:18-3:6. Of course such godly wives would also have the option of separating themselves celibately from such husbands (1Cor 7:10,11).

I submit to you that anyone who is perverse and wilfully disobedient to Yahweh is not a true believer. Remember, the Apostle Paul also counsels us not to be unequally yoked.

Also, as a side note, I must point out that the usage of the term "Jehovah" is not appropriate and downright blasphemous as "Jehovah" literally translated means "God (Yah) is perverse (hovah)". His correct Name is YAHWEH.

+++That writer would not blame a wife for reacting in a hostile manner, but Jesus would hold such a hostile wife to be guilty of disobedience to His Word in 1 Peter 3, Ephes 5, Luke 6:27-36 and Rom 12:14-21. Again that writer is in contradiction of the Word of God.

Luke 6:27-31

"But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. "Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. "And just as you want people to treat you, treat them in the same way.

NAS

Rom 12:14-21

Bless those who persecute you; bless and curse not. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation. Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. "But if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

NAS

Again with the eccentric interpretation. When the scriptures you quote are printed out, just as they appear in the bible, they do not say at all what you are trying to make them say. These passages are talking about enemies, mostly. Also included here is the Golden Rule, you know the one. Do unto others..............?

+++There is no such thing in the Bible of qualifications that must be met before one can be polygynous. There are qualifications that should be met if one wants to be a GODLY practitioner of polygyny, which would be the same qualifications of being a godly teacher or leader

Actually this is not true. There are extensive instructions for the behavior of husbands in a Godly marriage. Something for you to ponder, Ron. The bible makes no distinction between monogamy and polygamy, just marriage, and it offers explicit rules of behavior for the conduct of said marriage. Please see my response earlier in this essay on the qualifications a husband is to have.

+++This is almost heresy. Jesus of Bethlehm was Jehovah in a human body, and that alone qualifies Him to be the LITERAL Bridegroom of the Bride which we call the assembly of Believers

The heresy here is using the name Jehovah. This name, literally translated in the Hebrew, means "God is perverse".

+++Pastors, Deacons and Elders who are polygamists are living in the sin of disobedience to the standards set by Jesus and give through Paul in 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1. They are self-revealed to be in rebellion against King Jesus who they claim to serve. Claiming to be His followers they defiantly and deliberately disobey the clear Word in 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1, "wrest, as also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15,16.

You are arguing with the one-wife scriptures. Since this has been extensively covered by my husband at:

http://www.nccg.org/fecpp/CPM016-Mia.html

I will not cover it in any length here, but suffice it to say that this is another misconception the above writer puts forth, and to what end I am not sure.

+++While such a list of virtues would be commendable for any man, and such virtues would enable a man to live with his wife or wives in obedience to 1Pet 3:7, there is no such list of requirements in Scripture to qualify a man for polygyny or monogyny. No where does Jesus teach that a man must be so virtuous before he can marry, before he is to be allowed to marry.This is a lovely ideal, but Jesus doesn't require it, and to require it is to teach as doctrine the commandments of men, making the Word of God of no effect (Mark 7).

Again I refer you to the above reference. There is, most definitely, instruction for the husband's behavior in marriage. See Ephesians 5, as you would say. After the submission verses come the love verses. You know, how a husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church.

+++This is a good word, and in line with the principles of Romans 14 + 15 described above, which principles must be dealt with by any brother who is thinking of leading his wife into polygyny. The husband is not to voluntarily and wilfully stumble, grieve, offend, cause to sin or destroy the work of Christ in his wife by voluntarily and wilfully forcing polygyny on her. There are times when a husband is free to go into polygyny no matter what his wife says, such as when she refuses to have marital sexual intimacy with him in disobedience to 1 Cor 7: 5, or when she unilaterally separates herself from him according to 1 Cor 7:10,11, but such circumstances are not the rule or the norm in marriage.

1 Cor 7:5-6

Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again lest Satan tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

NAS

While I agree that a wife withholding sexual favors from her husband is rebellious and disobedient, there is no way you can take the above scripture as permission to force polygamy down the throat of the wife of your youth. As you made such a point earlier, just because the wife acts in disobedience that does not give the husband the right to as well.

+++The judgment an ungodly and imprudent husband would face for wilfully, selfishly, sinfully, and unkindly imposing polygyny on his wife is described in Isa 59 + 1 Pet 3:7; Rom 14 with 1 Cor 11: 1 Peter 3: 7 Ye husbands likewise, dwell with them according to knowledge, as with a weaker, even the female, vessel, giving them honour, as also fellow-heirs of the grace of life, that your prayers be not hindered.Isa 59:1 ¶ Behold, Jehovah's hand is not shortened that it cannot save, neither his ear heavy that it cannot hear; 2 but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he doth not hear. Romans 14:15 For if on account of [your belief that it is okay tto eat] meat [or practice polygyny] thy brother [or sister] is grieved, thou walkest no longer according to love. Destroy not him [or her] with thy [belief and practice about eating] meat [or practicing polygyny] for whom Christ has died. . . . . 21 It is right not to eat meat, nor drink wine, nor [do anything including polygyny] in which thy brother [or sister] stumbles, or is offended, or is weak.

Mt 18:6 But whosoever shall offend one of these little ones who believe in me, it were profitable for him that a great millstone had been hanged upon his neck and he be sunk in the depths of the sea.

1Co 8: 8 But meat [or polygyny] does not commend us to God; neither if we should not eat [or be polygynous] do we come short; nor if we should eat [be polygynous] have we an advantage. . . . 10 For if any one see thee, who hast knowledge [about meat and eating, or about polygyny], sitting at table [eating meat or being polygynous] in an idol-house, shall not his conscience, he being weak, be emboldened to eat the things sacrificed to the idol [or practice polygyny]? 11 and the weak one, the brother for whose sake Christ died, will perish through thy knowledge [about meat eating and/or polygyny]. 12 Now, thus sinning against the brethren, and wounding their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

1 Cor 11:30 On this account many among you are weak and infirm, and a good many are fallen asleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves, so were we not judged. 32 But being judged, we are disciplined of the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

I have dealt with the paraphrasing of Romans 14 earlier. I would have to agree with your point in this paragraph, though. A man thinking of entering polygamy for any reason but to further the kingdom of Yahweh would be well-advised to carefully examine the consequences. As for the passage in Corinthians, I must respond thusly:

Rev 22:18-19

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

NAS

Note the penalty for adding to the Word of God and you decide what adding means. I would think it would mean adding words that were not there originally, whether you call it 'paraphrasing', 'rewriting' or 'mutilating'.

+++It amazes me that some people respond to the command of King Jesus in the same way they respond in the grocery or Wal*Mart store. They seem to feel free to pick and choose the commands they want to obey like they choose the food or sale items they want to buy, leaving unobeyed or neglected the commands they don't want to honor or obey, like they leave unselected the food or sale items they don't want. We are the purchased servant/slaves of King Jesus, and our obedience to His commands is the our "birthmark", the evidence that we are of Him.

***Heb 5:8 though he were Son, he learned obedience from the things which he suffered; 9 and having been perfected, became to all them that obey him, author of eternal salvation;

***1 John 2: 3 ¶ And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that says, I know him, and does not keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him verily the love of God is perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him.

+++We, His servant/slaves, are to obey all of His commands, not just the ones we take a fancy to, or are fond of. Consider the following commands from King Jesus, ALL OF WHICH we are expected to obey willingly:

**** LUKE 6:27 ¶ But to you that hear I say, Love [PRESENT IMPERATIVE] your enemies; do good [PRESENT IMPERATIVE] to those that hate you; 28 bless [PRESENT IMPERATIVE] those that curse you; pray [PRESENT IMPERATIVE] for those who use you despitefully. . . . . 35 But love [PRESENT IMPERATIVE] your enemies, and do good [PRESENT IMPERATIVE] , and lend [PRESENT IMPERATIVE], . . . 36 Be ye [PRESENT IMPERATIVE] therefore merciful, . . .

****ROMANS 12:14 Bless [PRESENT IMPERATIVE] them which
persecute you: bless [PRESENT IMPERATIVE], and curse
[PRESENT IMPERATIVE] not. 15 Rejoice [PRESENT
IMPERATIVE] with them that do rejoice, and weep [PRESENT
IMPERATIVE] with them that weep. 16 . . . Mind [PRESENT
IMPERATIVE] not high things, but condescend [PRESENT
IMPERATIVE] to men of low estate. Be[PRESENT IMPERATIVE]
not wise in your own conceits. 17 Recompense [PRESENT
IMPERATIVE]to no man evil for evil. Provide [PRESENT
IMPERATIVE] things honest in the sight of all men.

+++The IMPERATIVE indicates a command, or a prohibtion if "not" is used. A command is not a wish, a preference or a statement of hope. A command is an order, and if it is a command of King Jesus, it is an order He expects us to obey. We have little problem seeing the imperative commands of the preceeding paragraph for what they are, commands, orders and instructions from King Jesus, which we are to obey. There are many commands in the Bible that have been obscured and weakened by poor translation and instruction as to the Bible and its Greek. Many of us misread and misunderstood the commands in 1 Cor 7 for this reason: 1 Cor 7:" let each have his own wife, . . . . . 3 Let the husband render her due to the wife, . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . , let them marry; . . . ". In our unenlightened and/or untaught thinking, we took those "let" passages to mean the following: You saints let each have his own wife, . . . . . 3 You church let the husband render her due to the wife, . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . , you saints of the church let them marry; . . . We didn't know any better and we were not taught better.

All of this to illustrate what a command is, but still you have given no scriptural mandate for emergency marriage. I will say to you one more time, the instruction in 1 Corinthians is predominantly encouraging self-control, but instructs marriage as an alternative to sinning. Let us be clear on this. All it requires is reading the ENTIRE passage instead of just the one verse you want.

+++We didn't know that "the English language has . . . no imperative of the third person. Hence in translating the Greek imperative of the third person we have to use the helping verb 'let', so that the noun or pronoun that is the subject of the imperative in Greek becomes the object of the helping verb 'let' in English. [#1. P. 180, New Testament Greek; by J. G. Machen; Macmillan Co.]

+++Some modern translations have more correctly renedred such "let" passages. Consider the following:

7:2. let each have his own wife, . . . . . (KJV, NKJV, Darby)
---"every man should have a wife of his own" (Williams)
---"each man is to have his own wife" (NASB)
---"each man should have his own wife" (NIV. NLT, NCV)
---"every man should have his own wife" (NAB)
7:3 Let the husband render her due to the wife, . . . . (KJV, NKJV, Darby)
---"The husband must always give his wife what is due her" (Williams)
---"The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife" (NASB)
---"The husband should fulfil his marital duty y to his wife" (NIV)
---"The husband should not deprive his wife of sexual intimacy" (NLT)
---"The husband should give his wife all that he owes her as his wife" (NCV)
---"The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights" (RSV, AB)
---"The husband should fulfil his duty toward his wife" (NAB)
---"The husband must give the wife what is due to her" (NEB)
7:9 . . . . , let them marry; . . .(KJV, NKJV, Darby)
---"they should marry" (NIV, NCV, NAB, NEB, AB)
---"they should go ahead and marry" (NLT)
---"go ahead and get married" (CEV)
---"they should by all means go ahead and get married" (Message --"get married" (Beck)

+++So the passage is much more correctly understood as saying "2 but because of cases of immorality every man should have his own wife, . . . . .3. The husband should fulfil his duty toward his wife . . . 9. but if they do not exercise self-control they should marry. . . ." Recognizing the present tense and aorist mood of the Greek, the fuller and more exact meaning is as follows: "2 but because of cases of immorality every man SHOULD BE HAVING his own wife, . . . . .3. The husband WHOULD BE FULLFILLING his duty toward his wife . . ."

See the above response. What is so difficult to understand? Marriage is offered as an alternative to sinning but the exhortation in this passage is to self-control. Besides, there is a current belief, which I happen to share, that the New Testament was originally written in Hebrew\Aramaic, not Greek which would make the Greek but a translation as well and subject to the flaws as such.

+++The active aorist of verse nine really expands the meaning of the command. "The aorist is like the imperfect in that it refers to past time. But the imperfect refers to continuous action in past time (I was loosing), while the aorist is the simple past tense (I loosed). . . . But in past time the distinction is very carefully made; the Greek language shows no tendency whatever to confuse the aorist with the imperfect" (pp.81ff; New Testament Greek; by J. G. Machen; Macmillan Co.). This means that the fuller meaning of the verse is as follows: "9. but if they are not exercising self-control they should already be married. . . . " This means that those unmarried or widows who were not exercising self-control successfully should already have remedied the situation by marrying. The precedent for this in Sinai Law, the Law that Jesus commanded be kept while He was walking on earth (Mat 23:1-3), is found in Deut 22: 28 "If a man find a damsel, a virgin, who is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found, 29 then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he hath humbled her; he may not put her away all his days."

+++This makes 1 Cor 7:8,9 more than just a command for the unmarried or widows who are failing to exercise self-control. This means that not only are they sinning by failing to control themselves, it means that they failed to marry when they failed to exercise self-control, and are continuing in the double sin of failing to exercise self-control as well as failing to marry because of their self-control. Their sin has two aspects, failure to be self-controlled and failure to have married because of their self-control. We know that the correct response to such failure and sin is to agree with Jesus about the sin and forsake it (1 John 1:7-9; Prov 28:13). We know that forsaking of the sin is to take the form of the godly sorrow of 2 Cor 7:11 "For, behold, this same thing, your being grieved according to God, how much diligence it wrought in *you*, but what excusing of yourselves, but what indignation, but what fear, but what ardent desire, but what zeal, but what vengeance: in every way ye have proved yourselves to be pure in the matter."

I disagree with your conclusion that the ! Corinthians passage is a dual command. Literal (pshat) interpretation just does not support this.

+++Jesus, by His Spirit in Paul, indicated how He wants us grieve over such sin, so that with diligence, indignation, fear, ardent desire, zeal, vengeance, and on account of and to avoid sexual immorality each man would be having his own wife and each woman would be having her own husband (1 Cor 7:2; 1 Thess 4:3-8). "9. but if they are not exercising self-control they should already be married. . . . ". Jesus solution for avoiding sexual immorality is not cold showers, fasting, exercising and praying alone. Jesus ultimate solution for avoiding sexual immorality is marriage, each man having his own woman and each woman having her own man. So we see that the widows and unmarried of 1 Cor 7:8,9 who are failing to exercise self-control are under command to grieve and repent with diligence, indignation, fear, ardent desire, zeal, and vengeance by finally getting married.

1 Thess 4:2-8

For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification. 8 Consequently, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.

NAS

Again I must ask, where is the command for emergency marriage in this scripture? This is instruction to abstain from sexual immorality and to life in purity. I would add, it states specifically not to live in lustful passion.

+++I am so glad that Jesus Way is so much better and nobler than this patriarch's way. Immediately when the good Samaritan saw the wounded man he set out to help and deliver the man. When Peter was sinking in doubt and fear Jesus immediately reached out to him and saved him. When the apostles were terrified at seeing Jesus on the water, "Jesus immediately spoke to them, saying, Take courage; it is *I*: be not afraid." Jesus immediately healed the woman with the bloody fountain (Mrk 5:29). When the ruler of the synagogue came, Jesus immediately dealt with the death of his daughter (Mark 5). Mt 20:34 And Jesus, moved with compassion, touched their eyes; and immediately their eyes had sight restored to them, and they followed him.

+++Jesus, moved with compassion, quickly touched them and healed them. No delay in the face of suffering. Isn't His Word to us that of 1 Jn 3: 16 "Hereby we have known love, because *he* has laid down his life for us; and *we* ought for the brethren to lay down our lives. 17 But whoso may have the world's substance, and see his brother having need, and shut up his heart's compassion from him, how abides the love of God in him? 18 Children, let us not love with word, nor with tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And hereby we shall know that we are of the truth, and shall persuade our hearts before him--". Jesus."

One more time, what do the above scriptures have to do with marriage? They are about healing and miraculous rescue but in no way are they about marriage.

+++We who are of Jesus, like Jesus are moved with compassion, so that when we see a sister in need of what we have, we don't close our hearts against them, but open our hands and our hearts to them with what they need. If the godly in Christ Jesus who are able to help, see the unmarried and widows of 1 Cor 7:8,9 who are failing to exercise self-control while having failed to marry, and so are in desperate need to repent in marriage to avoid and clear themselves of sexual immorality, those who are of Jesus and who are able to help them in their repentance by enabling them to marry, compassion will not let them delay in enabling these needy unmarried and widows who abide under the command to marry in repentance. There are those who are able to enable to marry those unmarried and widows who have failed in self-control and who should already have been married, and seeing them in their need, they open their heart's compassion to the needy ones because the Love of God is in them. Those who are alien to the good Samaritan and the Love of God, upon seeing the unmarried and widows who are failing to be exercising self-control and have already failed to marry in repentance, they shut up their hearts' compassion from them and do not meet their need.

I am not talking about shutting up hearts, I am talking about your assumption that there is some sort of command for emergency marriage in the bible. I mean, after all, we are talking about abstaining from sexual immorality here, not about stopping breathing. It's NOT oxygen.

+++Are those who are in the sin of failing to exercise self-control and marry in repentance, are they walk on in their sin patiently, lovingly and graciously continuing in sin? I think not, if the Word of 2 Cor 7 be the Word. Should they wait a long time to rid themselves of their sin, instead of clearing themselves with the diligence, indignation, fear, ardent desire, zeal, and vengeance of 2 Cor 7? I think not, in Jesus.

+++The unmarried and the widow who know their Jesus and His Word, know that it is His will that without unnecessary delaythey clear themselves of their sin with the diligence, indignation, fear, ardent desire, zeal, and vengeance of 2 Cor 7.

++++This is true of those who are not under command to marry, who have no compelling need to marry, and are enabled by Jesus to wait. This condition is a gift from God (1 Cor 7: 7 Now I wish all men to be even as myself: but every one has his own gift of God: one man thus, and another thus.)

+++ As in the case of my wives and I, that means joining and ministering in assemblies of Jesus-believers who oppose and resist Biblical polygyny, in their carnality and the weakness of their faith (Rom 14), for there are no assembliesof Jesus-believers in our area who understand and accept Biblical polygyny. Following the African and Indian mode of polygyny, each wife having her own dwelling, sometimes not even in the same town/village/barrio/community, it is even easier to fellowship with and serve among such nonpolygynous believers because they rarely see the polygynous couple together, and never see the other wives, with each attending and serving in her own assembly. This is the practice of polygyny in a hostile environment according to Romans 14:22 Have you faith [that polygyny is right and so practice it]? Have that conviction about polygyny to yourself before God. Blessed is the one who does not judge oneself in what [belief or practice of polygyny] one allows [with a firm and convinced faith in its rightness]. 23 But one that doubts [about the rightness of polygyny], if [that] one [becomes polygynous], [that one] is condemned; because that one became polygynous not because of faith [in its rightness]; but whatever [behavior or thought does not originate from] faith [in its rightness before God] is sin. 15:1 ¶ But *we* ought, we that are strong [in our polygynous beliefs], to bear the infirmities of the weak [who can't spiritually digest the meat of polygyny], and not to please ourselves. 2 Let each one of us please his [monogynous] neighbour with a view to what is good, to edification. 3 For the Christ also did not please himself;

Well, we in this Order do not believe in families living in separate houses, and surely not in separate cities but I suppose that is a matter left to individual interpretation. I will allow that you may see it differently.

Biblical polygamy, entered into for the right reasons and lived righteously, is a great blessing for those living it. There is, however, no command for any to enter it unless they are specifically called by Yahweh. On the contrary, marriage was never meant to address the social ills of any society. The purpose of Godly marriage is to raise a Godly seed and to provide means for a man and a woman to have sexual relations in obedience to the Word of Yahweh. This does not constitute an emergency command to marry. You see, marriage is about love, first and foremost. Scripture is very explicit about this. And I posit once more, if a man enters polygamy for selfish reasons and forces his wife against her wishes to comply, then HE is the one who is being disobedient as this is not the characteristic of a loving husband as scripture commands him to be.

Further, I have one more scripture to share with you one more time for emphasis.

Rev 22:18-19

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

NAS

The fate of one who changes the Word of Yahweh is made most plain in the above passage. I beseech you brother, to stop playing with Yahweh's word and just obey it as it is written.

Author: SBK