From :  <anonymous.908ed14d56@anonymousSpeech.com> Sent :  Sunday, July 23, 2006 2:07 AM To :  derekrumpler@hotmail.com Subject :  Email from nccg_concern

Hello Derek, I'm contacting you by email because you addressed some communication to me more or less directly on one of NCCG's message boards, and after reading it, I decided I would like to contact you about it. This is not an effort to send you unwelcome communication or to harass you. If you do not wish me to contact you again, please drop me a message at nccg.concern@hotmail.com and let me know (any other communication should also go to this address). In the event you do not want further contact from me, I will not attempt to contact you again. The message size supplied by this email service is probably too small to be able to hold my entire email, so I have uploaded the intended message contents to a non-linked URL on my site. If you choose to view my message and would like to retain it for future reference, please save it locally on your hard drive, as this URL is not intended as a permanent link at this web address. The URL for this information is http://www.geocities.com/nccg_concern/email-for-d.html . Regards, NCCG_Concern *************************************************************** This email was send via www.AnonymousSpeech.com, the worlds leading anonymous email provider. The sender of this email is able to receive your reply. ***************************************************************

From: http://www.geocities.com/nccg_concern/email-for-d.html

Hello D,

I'm contacting you by email because you addressed some communication to me more or less directly on one of NCCG's message boards, and after reading it, I decided I would like to contact you about it. This is not an effort to send you unwelcome communication or to harass you. If you do not wish me to contact you again, please drop me a message at nccg.concern@hotmail.com and let me know. I will stop immediately and not attempt to contact you again, in that event.

From: <!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]--> <!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->edited  (Original Message)

Sent: 7/22/2006 10:52 PM

 

Because Mr. Concern continues to attack Christopher Warren on a prophecy Mr. Warren allegedly had, I wish to correct him on a number of misperceptions.   Mr. Warren did not have the prophecy in question regarding the "detailed profiles". I did. I shared it with Mr. Warren later who verified it through another prophet with a good track record and then it was published. Now I am going to give the prophecy in its bare minimum details and allow others to make their comments on it.   In the dream, I was in Mr. Warren's office with a few other members at headquarters. I had in my hands a list of several NCCG group members and a few lines of text by each of their names. I even saw that my name was mentioned and that I was referred to something like a "cult propagandist" or "psychologist" (I forget which -- they may have been the same -- it was spoken in concepts, not words). It then occurred to me that perhaps the people who were doing the exposé analyzed my writings in detail (because of certain "illogical conclusions" I thought I jumped to and thought they would expose). I then heard a voice tell me how they knew the private lives of some of the church leadership. The dream then ended.   I do not know if this was NCCG_Concern or not. It could've been anyone. But I do believe it is going to happen, sooner or later. I verified it through someone who is more gifted in this area than me and, so far as I know, has never had one prophecy drop to the ground.   So Mr. Concern can continue to make the claim the prophecy was about him, but it was not. Now that the truth has been written on the matter, however, I think the honest thing to do would be for him to remove that bit of information off his site.

My communication in response to this is overall an extremely long piece of writing, and I apologize for that, but I do not see any sections that I could remove without cutting out an important part of what I would like to communicate.

There are two brief points that you brought up that I would like cover first. First one is this one:

 --Mr. Concern continues to attack Christopher Warren on a prophecy Mr. Warren allegedly had--

Specific to the "a prophecy Mr. Warren allegedly had" phrase, I became aware several days after the first version of my page went up (through inference from the content of the message board posts) that Chris was not necessarily the single originator of all of the information behind this "prophecy" (prophecy in quotes because that is what he called it, but not necessarily what I can call it by definition). Chris was wholeheartedly sanctioning it, putting it forward in his own words with his name as the author of the post, but I knew that there could be some confusion as to whose prophecy it really was due to the definition of what a prophecy actually, technically is. At that time, I noted that the language in the title of my page was confusing in this regard. I did not want to include a discussion regarding the details behind this issue at that time, so I changed the wording of my title to remove the issue. The new title had wording that should not have allowed the reader to draw a conclusion on who had contributed all of the information for the "prophecy".

Specific to the "Mr. Concern continues to attack...", I am not clear on exactly what you mean by this. If you are referring to the fact that the statements about the false prophecy remain live on my site, well yes they do, and I'm going to discuss that in a bit. If you meant something else, then I do not understand.


On to another point, but still not to the main point of the email yet. Some things you have said in the past have led me to believe that you might not accept communication from me in an objective way. I am going to bring up three examples of these things with you, *not as an attack*, but as a means to point out some concerns, and make a statement about it when I am done.

(1) You went onto the public Rick Ross message board and asked questions, and got some answers back, which you then took to the *closed* NCCG message board and joked around, criticizing them in the closed environment. Later, you did get more accusatory in Rick's boards, but you did not continue these discussions to conclusion. This communicates to me that your primary intention of being there may have been to try to goad Rick Ross into saying something you could use to contribute to Chris' Scientology-based character assassination of him. If this or anything similar to it is indeed the case, it indicates that you would not have been searching for honest truth in your communication effort, and that isn't so great.

(2) In your article in nccgcybercommunity "Sermons Board : Entering Into Life: Keeping the Commandments", you stated: "Likewise, we have leaders we are obedient to. Hebrews 13:17 tells us to obey our leaders in Messiah because they must give an account. Where their words do not contradict Yahweh's revealed Word in the Scriptures, we follow them wholeheartedly. This may rank of cultism to the world, but the world was never like us. In fact, I have found that through absolute and total surrender, I have been very happy and have been protected. Indeed, they do "watch for your souls" (Hebrews 13:17)."

This contains several pieces of information which are very deeply concerning. Firstly, the scriptural interpretation of  Hebrews 13:17 to mean "where the leader's instructions do not CONTRADICT the Bible, they are to be followed" is indeed (as you hinted at in the text) a very key Bible interpretation that is used within many Bible cults that are wholly verified as destructive. I suggest that churches that could be considered "safe" from the standpoint of potential exploitation of followers have a different interpretation of this scripture, which is "Where the Bible does not specify the issue, the leader is required to remain silent". I suggest that a safe leader's instructions never extend beyond the authority provided to that leader by the Bible, and that authority is expressly limited to matters of religious teaching. The particular Bible interpretation you stated allows overlap into other areas, and is very dangerous territory in that it can be key in abusive relationships between leaders and followers. Aside from it being non-Biblical,  I suggest that *any* use of this Biblical interpretation represents a dangerous situation over time, despite the best intentions.

A further and perhaps the more disturbing thing about this was your acknowledgment of this, with the phrase "This may rank of cultism to the world....". This further explanation means, to the best of my understanding, that at least at that time you were categorically disregarding possible criticism regarding "cultism" as it could relate to NCCG, and in your mind, NCCG gets a clean ticket in regards to anything that could be dangerous due to being "cultic". This may be an overgeneralization, but your statement was general, so I have to take the general meaning from it. At a minimum, it applied to this dangerous Bible interpretation. Additionally, it could also mean that you disregarded value in the idea that "cultic" things have an inherent danger to them at all.

These two issues in this part of your writing lead me to believe that you may have been in a recklessly zealous (no pun on your internet handle intended) frame of mind, potentially not able to note important facts and, possibly, warning signs which may have come up, both regarding your own evangelical activities and things which may happen within NCCG.

(3) You have advised people who came to you for advice to "cut off" friendships and relationships based upon that third party being not necessarily being a "Christian", and to instead exclusively surround themselves with friends who share the same belief system. I've seen you communicate these things more than once. This is both a dangerous and yes, "cultic" precept in that it is frequently used by unsafe leaders: a person who loses all of his non-group friends often feels that he or she has nowhere to return if they change their mind about the group, and this is one of many small factors that encourages them to stay. It is also not Biblical, as the Bible wants Christians to be examples to "the world", and Christians are a much less effective example when they have ceased personal contact and indeed "cut off" the very people to whom they are supposed to be that example. The concept of "Well, you do it to protect your own salvation" would not apply to the Biblical concept of leading by example, and would therefore not be an excuse to cut off non-Christian friends. The Bible does not make allowances for ignoring this important role for selfish reasons, and it does not say that it is going to be easy to proceed through life as a real Christian example. I suggest that cutting off those relationships amounts to shirking that Bible-imposed responsibility, and you may have missed this due to not being objective at that time.


The reason I bring these things up is this. I would indeed like to respond to what you have said in this message board post, but there are some things to think about. If you wholly disregard everything I say outright, for whatever reason, I believe it could do more harm than good for me to write it in the first place. My staying silent and not discussing it would be the better thing in this event.

If you honestly know, right now, that you fully distrust and disbelieve anything I have to say, and furthermore that there is 0.0000% chance that Christopher C. Warren is not a prophet called by God to make genuine prophecies, then it would be best for you to delete my email now and ask me not to contact you again. I do not say this to attempt a mind-game with you in which I get you to admit on some level that you have these reservations by your simple act of finishing reading this email. I mean that as a real suggestion, for what it is worth.

You'll note that I am focusing on Chris and not you in my above paragraph. There's a reason for that, and it will be clear later in this email.

I'd like to discuss a few points about what a prophecy functionally is, and examine the exact statements that went into the message board regarding the "prophecy". This is an entirely different discussion from the one that appears on my site (although I have considered including this one for some time).

Firstly, there is the question, is a functional prophecy an idea that comes down to someone in the form of a vision, dream, or revelation from God, or on the other hand, is it expressly the words that come out of someone's mouth? And furthermore, what defines someone as a false prophet, and what is a false prophecy? I suggest that the Bible has answers to these questions.

We have this in Matthew:

7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

And it also says this:

7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.....


But what "fruits" exactly are going to work for this, since we also have this later on in Matthew?

7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy Name? And in the Thy Name have cast out Devils? And in thy Name done many wonderful works?
7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Plus this in Mark:

13:22 For false christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.


So how would one know, as these "fruits" aren't terribly obvious? The fruits are not exclusively "showing signs and wonders", that is clear. Fortunately, there's two Bible verses that are more concrete. They apply to two different kinds of false prophets, one who is actually giving correct prophecies and one who is not.

Deuteronomy:

13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.


Jeremiah 28:9 "The prophet who prophesieth of peace, WHEN THE WORD OF THE PROPHET SHALL COME TO PASS, THEN SHALL THE PROPHET BE KNOWN, THAT THE LORD HATH TRULY SENT HIM."


That last one right there contains THE ANSWER in regard to what criteria we judge a false prophet and a false prophecy to be in this kind of case.

It clearly states... "The word of the prophet shall come to pass". The WORD.

It does not say "When either the word of the prophet shall come to pass OR when the word of God as he told it to the prophet, minus the prophet's embellishments, shall come to pass." This is an absolutely critical distinction and if you don't catch it, it will slide right by. It said, HIS WORD. This should also be the case in any good Bible translation you can find.

This verse leaves absolutely no room for screwups regarding what comes out of the mouth of the prophet. If words pour out of someone's mouth as a "prophecy", and the words lead the people to believe baloney and it is indeed later seen that it was baloney, the prophet is not speaking for God, and that's that. This would mean that the whole prophecy goes in the trash (and in fact, elsewhere in Deuteronomy it has them tossing the whole prophet into the trash, too).

The requirement is clearly on the WORD OF THE PROPHET to be correct. Not that individual's explanations, or excuses, or what he later says actually came from God vs. what he mistakenly added in his  own enthusiasm.

When we look at the post in the message board, it is indeed significantly different (and expanded upon) from the details in your dream. However, and this is a very important "however", that dream of yours is an entirely different issue from a false prophecy, according to this Bible verse. Somebody came up with the published, posted WORDS in this "prophecy" (this looks like Christopher Warren's writing to me, not yours), and made it visible to a large number of people. He did not put anyone's name behind it, instead putting up a generic "we", and he stood behind it. The person who put his WORD behind this is responsible to himself and God for getting every WORD of it right ("when the word of the prophet shall come to pass").

Personal embellishments scattered throughout the text of this person's WORD ("when the word of the prophet shall come to pass") do not change the fact that all of this was his WORD.

The whole concept of WORDS is that they have a meaning in people's minds, and communicate an understanding -- throwing "probably" here and there throughout the text in a way that allows a false expectation in the minds of the majority of the readers would not excuse those false understandings due to an alternate linguistic interpretation. The WORD of the prophet is what is gold, here, and is held to the highest scrutiny in the determination. Not intentions, and not your original dream. You're allowed to have dreams, and wonder as to their meaning, and maybe even make assumptions, but the Bible indicates that no legitimate prophet is ever allowed to make a false prophecy out of anything.

And with that having been said, here's the original post, word for word, with some of my comments included in parentheses.

What The Enemy is Currently Doing

The Nature of the Second Wave Revealed

"The following is by way of prophetic information revealed to us by Yahweh to prepare our people for what is coming."

(This has firmly established in the minds of the readers that the following information is a prophecy. The writer is now officially on the hook for his WORDS not being misleading).

They are writing detailed profiles on each and every member of MLT/NCCG based on what they can cull from the website, the posts here, sermons and email/IMs that they have been hacking into. They are indeed going to a great deal of trouble to try and discredit such a tiny group (I wonder why? Answers available from Yahweh). They mean to publish a very detailed character profile of each and every one of us, moulded in the image they wish to create, twisting the information (and misinformation) in the usual way, with a view to destroying us. The result is, however, that they will be destroyed themselves. In a sentence: what they wish to happen to us, will happen to them, and our ministry will simply be strengthened and enlarged. Little do they realise that they are doing Yahweh's work. But as Yah'shua said, stumblings will come, but woe unto them that cause stumblings.

(This paragraph is actually not the core of this particular discussion. I have said before that I firmly believe that this whole idea of multiple people actively researching NCCG is just a fantasy that happened as an unintended consequence of my research activities. I stand by this, and I have absolutely no evidence of anyone else researching NCCG to the kind of depth that is indicated in this writing. It should be noted that this does not necessarily prove that your dream is a positive indicator that you are personally, solidly wrapped up in this fantasy. The entire group of assumptions is the result, and it includes the impressions and feelings of anyone who helped interpret this dream with you, or verified this meaning. You've already read some of the reasons I feel this way, and it is a different discussion, so I'll go on).

So sometime in the near future - probably at Mr. Concern's site but also probably elsewhere too - they mean to extend their so-called "expossé" into what they claim to be minute detail character studies. Expect to find a very detailed profile of the existing leadership, and of the leaders to come with a lot of psycho-babble. The intent of these profiles will be defammatory, like the newspaper article, and not at all in the interests of truth. Expect to find very loaded terms and deliberately misleading labels like 'cult propagandist' applied to one of our people. The aim is to make us appear unstable, paraonoid, cultic, delusional - you name it, they will come up with it. In short, total character assassination.

(In terms of the Bible's definition of a false prophecy, and indeed of a false prophet, this author of this text has now entirely blown it. He said "probably at Mr. Concern's site but also probably elsewhere too". There is no third location stated as a definite one to even begin to offset these two "probable" ones in the mind of the reader. The "probable" location that carries the most linguistic weight in the sentence is the "Mr. Concern" site.

It is not even necessary to micro-analyze the effects the word use in this paragraph has on the reader, as the impression and understanding these WORDS create is clear. You can view the post in it's original form in the message board itself to see what I mean. The typical reader who read this information from beginning to end and was trusting it would walk away saying to himself, "That's going to pop up on the nccg_concern web site and maybe elsewhere too". (and doing a poll after-the-fact, making people go back over it and really think about every linguistic nuance, would be cheating - - the "prophecy" itself did not recommend doing this).

The WORDS would have in this case misled the person, as the conclusion in this case does happen to be false. It is the nature of language that the value and meanings of WORDS exist in the context of the ideas they ultimately communicate. Small twists in grammar (such as the word "probably" not officially meaning an absolute certainty at www.dictionary.com) by no means bypass or excuse the effect of a group of words that convincingly communicates a different  idea.

And throughout, if my firm belief that there are no others doing this kind of research carries any weight, there are even more statements about what "they" are supposedly doing and going to do - - all false.

It is also important to understand, in case it comes up later, that there's no provision in the Bible verse for anything like the following: "When the word of the prophet shall come to pass, assuming that the object of the prophecy did not notice the prophecy and deliberately change his or her mind in order to invalidate the prophecy....". That is simply not there, and it is not an argument that can possibly be used in a Biblical context. This kind of situation can never happen in regards to the true word of God. It's either for real, or it's not, and it wouldn't be meddled with by the ideas or actions of people.)

They believe they are going for the metaphorical 'jugular vein' but as Yahweh has already stated, it is going to backfire on them. And very badly at that. Yahweh and Torah are our judge, and not these deluded people who are spending so much time on us - and for what purpose? Why not use their resources on the real cults out there, of which there are thousands.

Only those who know their Bibles will understand why. Many will fall away as a result of this but far more will be coming when they see the mighty hand of Yahweh at work.

28 June 2006"

(yeah yeah okay).

So, how long does one have to wait for this prophecy as stated by Chris in this message board to not come true? If you leave NCCG tomorrow, does it mean this prophecy falls on its ass because the person who was supposed to be called a "cult propagandist" on my web site was you?

Additionally, how do the very prophetically-presented WORDS in Chris' earlier failed "prophecies" match up against the Biblical standard, such as the one about Norway in 1998?

http://www.geocities.com/nccg_concern/oct1998.html ?

That's from archive.org. I see those WORDS as being a much bigger deal than the ones Chris recently said about my web site. The Norway thing even had a date.

If Chris was indeed a false prophet, as proven by his words, there's some instructions later in Deuteronomy as to what to do next:

Deuteronomy 13:5 -

"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. SO SHALT THOU PUT THE EVIL AWAY FROM THE MIDST OF THEE."

...but I am guessing the death sentence was canceled by the New Testament, and I would not tend to recommend that as part of the solution.

We still do have the phrase "SO SHALT THOU PUT THE EVIL AWAY FROM THE MIDST OF THEE". This says to me: if it's a false prophet, get them away from you and don't associate with them any more. Not to mention, in Old Testament times, the false prophet would not have been associating with ANYTHING except the business end of a thrown rock and the bottom of a grave. That fact is certainly indicative of the level of involvement you are supposed to retain with a false prophet.

It doesn't say that you would be allowed to continue studying spiritually with the false prophet because you believe, even though he was a false prophet and he was wrong several times, he was *honestly* wrong and meant no harm. It doesn't tell you that you could stick with him because you believe some of his doctrinal conclusions are correct. It does not tell you that you can try to counsel the false prophet in an effort to fix his problematic ways.  The applicable Bible verse makes no provision whatsoever for continuing to associate with the false prophet (or presumably read his web page updates). You might miss him because you would have removed him from your life, but the Bible has nothing to say about that. I guess that means "Tough cookies" about any unpleasant feelings you might have to endure as a result of the decision to exclude the false prophet from your life. You would be required to pick up the pieces and move on without him.

Factual, sequential details would not have been provided in the Bible about this if the Christian way to solve this particular issue was to expect a quick answer to come floating down from the sky from God on a pink post-it note saying True or False. There is a pre-defined evaluation process being required and it is not one that involves trusting any man or, even, trusting your own feelings. I note that it does not even say to pray about or to "trust God" to hand you the answer or assist you. It directs you to use the instructions as provided in the Bible, make a factual evaluation, and proceed based upon the outcome of that, plain and simple. No tricks and no ambiguities, if done correctly.

Some last points. This whole False Prophet thing is an important issue that the Bible requires you to evaluate in all seriousness and using your maximum sensibilities. The Bible indicates that false prophets are EXTREMELY convincing. There is nothing in the Bible indicating that false prophets are not first and foremost deceiving themselves, and therefore would not appear wholly honest to you. I expect that *if* Chris is a false prophet and you run to him with these ideas, hoping for and expecting an explanation that would make any concerns you have fly away, you might be provided with exactly what you were looking for. *If* indeed he was a false prophet and you settled for such an explanation, this would not be a great thing. It would clearly be your responsibility to figure it out as opposed with trusting the false prophet based on things like your feelings, doctrine, signs, wonders, perceived miracles, or personal attachments.

This incident with your dream being an informational base for a false prophecy does not mean that you personally stood up and attained the role of a false prophet. YOU did not present the WORDS in the form of a "prophecy" that the crowds flocked to read -- Chris did that. His name is on the post, the words are his, and your unwritten name was only behind the dream that was built up into this false prophecy (a much lesser role).

...And it would be a tricky situation for you if a false prophet tried to make you feel in some way responsible for HIS false prophecy, and you could not see through it.

As has happened on other occasions, Chris' words were wrong. Let him call it embellishment, immaturity, whatever, but I see no provision in the Bible that would excuse it.

 

--NCCG_Concern

PS: "regarding NCCG Critics : Will the True Mr. Concern Stand Up?", Bluewater2 copied and pasted something I said elsewhere, and it came through in first person. I'm not Bluewater2 on that board, my nccg_concern username is the only one.

PPS: I decided that it was best for me to take the strange stuff Chris Warren posts seriously if it in any way reflects matters of a serious nature, even when I personally can see it was intended as a joke. There are members on his board who will be affected by anything he says, even if what he says was in jest.

PPPS: From a strictly Biblical perspective, I would not be allowed to contact Chris and attempt to convince him of his problems or offer him help - - I would be required to "put the evil away".

From :  NCCG Concern <nccg.concern@hotmail.com> Sent :  Tuesday, July 25, 2006 6:16 AM To :  derekrumpler@hotmail.com Subject :  Please check your junk mail folder

Hello Derek, The evening Chris mistook Bluewater2 for me, I sent you an email using an anonymous email service. Hotmail delivers email from that service into your Junk Mail folder. You should disregard the originating IP address this email will show in its headers. It is a proxy server that is located nowhere near me. I waited a few days to see if Chris would change his mind on the character assassination he did to Bluewater2 in nccgcybercommunity, and he didn't. When I looked through everything I had, I noted that he had done this to 4 people in total since I'd been paying attention, with this latest one being absolutely screwball. So, I have published his character assassinations that I have personally seen so far on my site. The new page is linked off of the main URL. I also emailed Bluewater2 at the only email address I could find for him and suggested he take a look. I don't know if my update has any bearing on your interpretation of your dream, but it will be fascinating if somebody tries to turn your dream backwards and apply it to my new update. Your dream had you and other NCCG members being singled out by evil and malicious people, and the ultimate post by Chris indicated each of them was to be attacked in a twisted and ficticious way. My update happened because Chris wrote a fanatical (twisted and ficticious) attack on a completely uninvolved person, and I sensed it was a good time to put all of these things on my site. On July 18, I received email communication from "Z" (Chad Zimmerman) for the first time. I updated my site indicating that very shortly after it happened for the sake of accuracy, but the update is on the sub-page "current.html" and I don't believe it has been noticed. Anyway, please check your junk mail folder. If you know you are watching out for a reply from me, you should keep an eye on it. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

From :  NCCG Concern <nccg.concern@hotmail.com> Sent :  Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:49 AM To :  derekrumpler@hotmail.com Subject :  Article inspired by you

Hello Derek, I sincerely hope you are not believing the things Chris keeps saying about me. He even said on nccgcybercommunity that I only email people who are straggling, and this was maybe one day after I had emailed *you*. I hope that got your attention. This new article was a long time in the making. You were right in an important respect when you made a post in the bluewater thread stating "Where's the love for us?". I had, to date, not done a good job at providing the Biblical reasons I can feel certain that Chris is nothing more than a charismatic False Prophet. These reasons were complicated and time-consuming to research and explain fully, but you were right in that it was a job that needed to be done. A quick Bible study written in one evening wasn't going to cut it. The article is visible as article #1 on the right side of this new page: http://www.geocities.com/nccg_concern/prophecyindex.html . If your research tells you that there's anything theologically incorrect about it (or theologically/factually incorrect anywhere on that page), I'm honestly interested in being told. I don't see a good reason why someone who is well-read in the Bible, especially someone who has an interest in the older texts, should be stuck with a False Prophet. The information in the Bible was given to Christians to help get them out of these kinds of situations. It's unfortunate if Chris showed you "signs and wonders" that made you believe and waste your time and energy, but that's how it goes with these guys. Maybe one day we can talk about things in a constructive way. I can't imagine that's possible if you believe, as Chris says, that I am likely some kind of satanic, persecuting, enemy-of-God who is, at the very best, extremely mistaken and being influenced by "the enemy" to persevere. If you don't want to hear from me in email again, you should let me know. It's not my goal to push things on people. If someone wants to believe that Chris Warren is exactly what he says he is, and be absorbed in the (hypnosis-aided fantasy) world he has created for himself, that is by every means their right. People also have the right to build a life-size model of the Starship Enterprise and live on it as Star Trek crew members, but that space ship is not actually going to fly through space with them on it, no matter what they try. If NCCG associates say they want to believe they are following a true Prophet of God, and indicate that they sincerely care about the truth about the Bible as it relates to Chris Warren and NCCG, they might hear from me on occasion because I am 100% certain they are being deceived. --NCCG_Concern _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

In this post, Mr. Concern is making an effort to flatter me (hence the reason this section has the name it does). I wonder why? First, he says that this new particular sets of articles was "inspired by me" in the e-mail title (ironically, I debunked this criteria on another section of the site). Next, he states he's honestly interested in being told. Given. My rebuttals are on this site. If he was honestly interested in being told, he wouldn't have put up an entire website dedicated to destroying people's lives, no matter how much 'concern' he says he has, by revealing personal information. If he's 'honestly' interested in being proven wrong, he should change his tone. Then the flattering becomes more flowery when he tells me that I'm "well-read in the Bible" and shouldn't be deceived by Warren. He then says "Maybe one day we can talk about things in a constructive way". He says this, but he has been anything but "constructive" using words like "bullshit" whenever he doesn't agree with anything we say and again, posting up personal information. And I don't believe that he's "some kind of satanic [sic], persecuting, enemy-of-God who is, at the very best, extemely mistaken and being by the influenced by 'the enemy' to perservere" because Chris told me, but because his fruits are self-evident to me (although I might strike the "who is, at the very best, extemely mistaken and being by the influenced by 'the enemy' to perservere" part -- I think he knows what he's doing). He then gets offended for me ignoring his e-mails and then throws in a sarcastic quip about how our church is comparable to those who want to live in a life-size model of the Starship Enterprise. He states he knows this because he knows we are 100% deceived -- well, given that he's following his criteria for knowing so, I am fully convinced he is 100% in error, as I've demonstrated on other portions of this website.