Critique of
Character assassination of
"Bluewater2
[I'm pretty sure nccg_concern
loved this one. Someone posed as nccg_concern, and
the same person happened to be a very outspoken atheist, so C.C. Warren made a
long series of jokes on that and then it turned out they were not the same
person… so nccg_concern comes in saying "I was
thinking of rescuing Warren from the humiliation, but
I didn't do it for the concerned public's sake". He sends an e-mail to
bluewater2 telling him what happened, and he then e-mails Warren and Warren
apologises. Joke's on Warren? Sure. But hey, he even published the e-mail he
got from bluewater2 and apologised. The whole thread is now deleted.]
Background:
I emailed the F.A.C.T.Net organization (Fight Against Coercive Tactics
Network, web site http://www.factnet.org) a while back with a link to my site and a summary about NCCG. Someone from Factnet.org then started a thread about NCCG in their message board and included the statements I
had emailed them.
On June 3, a user of the factnet.org message board named
"Bluewater2" made a post that quoted something I had written
elsewhere. His post looked like this:
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Posted on Saturday, June 03,
2006 - 4:35 pm:
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I
found this about them. The cult's primary web site is visible at http://www.nccg.org. The public report I made about the cult can be viewed at http://www.geocities.com/ncc
g_concern .
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Someone showed this to Warren, and he came to the conclusion that
"Bluewater2" was actually me. In the NCCGCyberCommunity
message board that evening, I watched as Chris became aware of and then
discounted serious evidence to the contrary, in the form of a MUCH earlier dated
thread (March, 2006, link
here) in another message board. This was
a thread in which Bluewater2 and I had a brief interaction while using our
respective usernames.
I watched as Chris based this conclusion solely on an inference about
one line of text that Bluewater2 had pasted into the Factnet
message board (June 3, 2006) which happened to be written in first person. The
leading sentence of Bluewater2's post even indicated that the text could be a
quotation, but oh well. NCCG members were posting traceroutes trying to figure out where this person lives,
and so on. After a while of reading Bluewater2's Factnet
message board posts, an NCCG member voiced that
bluewater2 was not looking like me after all. Chris was not listening, however,
and seemed to be gearing up for... a character assassination.
While all of that was happening, part of me felt like posting into their
thread, saying "guys, thats NOT me." If it
had been a public, anonymous type board, I probably would have done it (Why? I
don't know, I just don't like to see stuff like that go down when I can toss in
a word or two and set something straight). But to do that would have blown a
completely usable login for that message board, so I didn't do it.
In retrospect, it was best that I had not interrupted what was
happening. The reason why didn't occur to me until after it had all transpired.
The next day, Christopher Warren would have awakened from a presumably restful
and invigorating sleep, and having slept on it and thought over what he wanted
to do, he would get to take action. Now that he thought he had finally
identified "nccg_concern", and even had his
IP address, what would he do?
The answer: He posted the most nonsensical character assassination I
have seen him post yet. The attack was principally against Bluewater2, picking
through some of his posts on that message board to get some stuff to talk
about, with all of the fantasies he has about me intertwined within it. The
resulting piece of writing was ... stupid. It was Bluewater2 and me and Rick
Ross stuck together like a three-headed monster, with fantasies about Rick and
I interjected into the mess, and Chris working hard to beat the crap out
of Bluewater2 at the same time. I feel like I should MS Paint a picture
of this hideous monster sometime.
The post has remained in place for at least 2 days (this is being
written on the second day). Some non-Chris-authored posts are disappearing from
the thread, presumably being deleted by their author. I don't blame
him.
Research-wise, this is good stuff. I had deduced that one of Chris'
primary reasons for wanting to identify me (and my religious beliefs) was so
that he could base a large character assassination on whatever he could find + his
imagination, and this was shown to be correct. With these trends the way they
are, it seems likely that this has been one of his methods of operation for a
good while now.
Imagination != insight, and imagination != intelligence, either.
Here's the important posts in that thread, minus most of the posts from
that first evening.
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NCCG Critics : Will
the True Mr. Concern Stand Up?
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Message 1
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From: Community_Moderator
(Original Message)
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Sent: 7/23/2006 2:26 AM
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Thanks to some research work
done by one of our members, Mr. Concern has revealed his true colours.
Please note that he uses the nic bluewater2:
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/20738.html?1144170873
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bluewater2
(bluewater2)
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 490
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.75.252.89
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Posted on Saturday,
March 04, 2006 - 6:17 pm:
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Christianity is one of many false belief systems that tries to pass itself
off as normal, mainstream and healthy. It is only
healthier than being a drug addict, or completely emotionally broken in some other way. And that
is the type of person that is the easiest target for this religious
system. Unfortunately, once someone is brainwashed into this way of
thinking they come to think that they know all they need to know.
Learning ends. Intolerance increases. Walls are erected. Just as AA
takes people who are broken and turns them into Alcoholic Anonymous
addicts, so does Christianity turn followers into religiaholics,
unable to function without the system. As science continues to expose the
idiocy of the ridiculous beliefs that give Christianity it’s foundation
people will begin to understand it is possible to be a loving person
who loves life without having to bow down to some idol who has been
dead for 2000 years. All of the revealed religions, Christianity
primarily, pray on those who cannot think for themselves. Anyone
willing to study religious history will eventually develop a healthy
perspective and realize that religion and god are man made and that
hundreds of millions of people get by just fine with out it and did for
100’s of thousands of years before these systems were created.
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Please see the other threads in this link where
Mr. Concern (bluewater2) shares his deep wisdom with the world.
That bluewater2 and Mr. Concernm
are one and the same is shown here:
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/21415.html?1149366901
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bluewater2
Senior Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 1087
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.75.252.89
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Posted on Saturday, June
03, 2006 - 4:35 pm:
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I found this about them.
The cult's primary web site is visible at http://www.nccg.org. The public report I made about the
cult can be viewed at http://www.geocities.com/nccg_concern
.
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Message 9
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From: member's name
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Sent: 7/23/2006 4:26 AM
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Message 10
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From: member's name
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Sent: 7/23/2006 4:44 AM
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Message 11
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From: member's name
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Sent: 7/23/2006 4:45 AM
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You know, the more I read
these, the more I think this is the work of some kid.
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Message 12
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From: member's name
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Sent: 7/23/2006 4:48 AM
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This was also on the last
post.
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bluewater2
Senior Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 1145
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.75.252.89
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Posted on Monday, June
05, 2006 - 9:26 pm:
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Hey Franklin. Why are you
such a mean and angry person? Someone, somewhere stopped loving you,
and all the love of your Christ doesn/t seem
to be of any help to you. As much as I am tempted to want to use your
tactics of insult and degradation, I really want to reach out and let
you know that if you ever really need someone to talk to, you know you
can email me. You have it.
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Why doesn't he extend the same
invitation to us? If this is concern, I don't know what is.
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Message 16
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From: Community_Moderator
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Sent: 7/23/2006 12:14 PM
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You know, considering his
penchant for talking to himself on the same board using two different nics, his hatred of Messianic Judaism, the fact that
he has a Jewish girlfriend, is leading me to suspect that both nccg_concern and bluewater2 are just internet
personas of Rick Ross himself. (And before he accuses me of being anti-semitic - which I am sure he'd love to - I have nothing against Jews or any race - just certain of
them who are gifted at hating). I can't prove anything yet but I am
seeing definite patterns of personality resemblance. His patronising of
pagan groups (as an atheist) leads me to suspect that he is
desperate for some support (or is a closet pagan), and of course they are
more than willing to mock and disparage Christians of every stripe and
bolster his ego a bit. Whatever concern's/bluewater2's/Ross'? belief
about "love" - he makes personal claims for that in his
anti-Christian diatribe in message #1, says on his nccg_concern site that he has "nothing against
Christians", says he is willing to talk and help misguided
Christians and won't rave and rant like they do in message #12, etc.,
etc. - he certainly has a strange way of showing "love" to
those whom he feels threatened by. He's never tried to 'lovingly'
recruit me to his wonderful world view but that's probably because
he thinks I should be electrocuted like the other untermenschen who threaten his
utopian dream. Either he's Jewish or trying to curry favour with Jews who
loathe Messianic Jews for "stealing" their culture
or "Christians" (nazis) for
murdering them (note: I have no love for nazis
but I certainly believe the Germans have been maligned and
victimised). He comes across as very emotionally immature, neurotic
and with very twisted motives for doing things. He's proven himself
dishonest. And the more he publishes and reveals himself
and his true feelings, the more rope he makes to hang himself with,
as I have said. Needless to say his great "concern" for people
nowhere leads him to try and persuade them of a better lifestyle that is
logical and coherent. He has shown himself to be a liar - saying one
thing in one place and another else where - he imitates Christian practive by being willing to "give an ear"
to someone whom he feels is no threat to his narrow and (if I may say so)
bitter worldview (because the Christian in question is probably bitter
like himself - I donæt give carte
blanche to all Christians as he seems
to to atheists and pagans). For all his
attempts at composure in his academic writing, he can barely conceal the
angry and lost child within who strikes out at the scapegoat enemy (a bit
like the nazis swiping at the Jews, only this
time its Christians who are the scapegoats) - religion, but
especially Christian religion (he dare say wouldn't dare take on
fundamentalist Islam), and one (like myself) who incarnates all that he
rages against within. Since he will get flattened for attacking the
larger groups like the RCC or
Mormonism (because of political and financial clout), he bites off
only what he thinks he can chew - the small Christian groups. And to give
himself legitimacy, he finds a genuine cult here or there, bashes them
(though I have yet to see a website like nccg_concern
that he has created in which he has actually "exposed" anyone
before - my guess is we're the first ... and I don't mean the odd post in
a couple of groups), gets the plaudits of those who can see for
themselves is a cult, and thereby recruits credibility in his wider war
against Christianity. In fact I'd like to see any othjer
websites he has crfeated in his valiant crusade
against the cults. Or are we the only one? And if so, why? The more I
read of him, the more I see in him a crusade of hate, not scientific or
humanistic philanthropy.
Unlike Concern/bluewater2/Ross?
we attack false religion too. I see no attacks by him on the record of
"false atheism" (assuming he believes in such a thing) such as
communism, fascism, etc. (unless he is one, of course - they're pretty
much alike). Ironically, the one "church" who has bloodied
his/Ross'? nose - the Scientologists - are about as close to his
'non-religious'' system as he could dream of. His belief system, as
revealed online for people to scrutinise, is pretty vague. He seems to
understand that a moving target is hard to hit so he says contradictory
things about the same thing, exploiting confusion to his advantage like a
good Illuminati propagandist (I wager this
sentence will appear on his site as an example of my
"paranoia" lol). About the only thing
he dares wager on is evolution which is pretty easy to dismantle
(speaking as a scientist here who has apparently "ceased
learning" [message #1] as a Christian according to him ...
I wonder what he is? What he's qualified in? I don't suppose he'll ever
tell us and will always offer his usual pathetic excuse for his secrecy -
namely fear of my Maffia hit-squad ...
whence the paranoia one wonders?). For "free thinking"
materials on evolution, see our Science page at www.nccg.org/Science-HP.html. Let's see if His basis for rationality is "scientific"
- I challenge him to answer my article at www.nccg.org/188Art-ScienceFaith.
html which shows that he is as religious as the next man, only
that his religion is atheism. ACtually I think
he's far more religious than I am because I believe my faith has more of
a rational foundation than his - much more.
And I wonder how many of the Christians
who approvingly quote him or respond to him know just what Concern
believes about junkie Christians? ... because he courts them with one
hand and rubbishes them with the other which, if I am not mistaken, is
what antichrist does, doesn't he? (10:1 he'll quote this and claim I
think he's the antichrist).
Let's see some more of your
writings, Concern/bluewater/Ross? The more you
write the more you tell us about yoruself which
you are so desperate to keep hidden, even though you're willing to hypocritically
trash people in public from the comfort zone of your own black hole. And
I reiterate, you will be exposed because this Christian doesn't stand idly by and give
authority to quacks like you. And what I cannot do, One who is greater
than both of us definitely will.
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Message 18
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From: Community_Moderator
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Sent: 7/23/2006 1:14 PM
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More information on the 'Great
Concern':
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bluewater2 (bluewater2)
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 432
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.75.252.89
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Posted on Monday,
February 27, 2006 - 9:03 pm:
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I hate different races, arron. Thats why my
children are 50% Navajo Native American and my girlfriend is 100%
Jewish. You are 100% kookie. But so entertaining.
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bluewater2 (bluewater2)
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 434
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.75.252.89
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Posted on Monday,
February 27, 2006 - 9:16 pm:
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The kids are 50% Navajo,
50% white. Of course my girlfriend does not think that Jesus was the
messiah. No REAL Jews do. They don't even keep or acknowlege
your new testament. Real Jews think that the NT is a joke. Why wouldn't
they? They wrote the Torah and don't accept Jesus because he did not fullfill the prophecies in the Book Of Prophets.
Christianity is another "new" religion, like Mormonism. If I
needed any god based religion, like you do, I would be Jewish. A much better religion.
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yaakov2
(yaakov2)
Member
Username: yaakov2
Post Number: 87
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From:
66.192.99.67
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Posted on Tuesday,
February 28, 2006 - 12:16 pm:
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Bluewater2
Which half of your kids is Navajo, the top half or the bottom half?
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bluewater2 (bluewater2)
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 448
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.75.252.89
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Posted on Tuesday,
February 28, 2006 - 1:21 pm:
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Arron, I do not lie.
Never accuse me of that. And I can show you 135 prophecies unfulfilled.
If I show you those will you recant your statement above that every
prophecy was fulfilled? If you ever accuse me of lying again, arron, I will find you and make you eat your words.
Thank you.
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bluewater2 (bluewater2)
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 451
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.75.252.89
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Posted on Tuesday,
February 28, 2006 - 3:46 pm:
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Arron, I have always
been respectful with you but you called me a liar. Since you are unable
to defend your position in a rational and intelligent way you resort to
name calling, calling me a liar, calling me a child. You sounded like a
man when you sent your little message out saying you were taking some
time off to reflect because of the bitterness here. Now you have come
back more bitter than ever. You are so transparent that it is
laughable. Good luck in your walk with the lord. He is way over there
though, arron, so your walk is obviously
fruitless.
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bluewater2
(bluewater2)
Intermediate Member
Username: bluewater2
Post Number: 469
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.75.252.89
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Posted on Thursday,
March 02, 2006 - 4:01 pm:
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I think that arron is completely oblivious to the notion that
anyone could possibly think that Jesus is not the savior.
As far as I am concerned, Xtianity hijacked
the parts of the Torah, Nevi'im and Kethuvim that conveniently justify their own
twisted system. Thats just me, of course.
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http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi?pg=next&topic
=3&page=13249
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Message 19
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From: Community_Moderator
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Sent: 7/23/2006 1:19 PM
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nccg_concern/bluewater2:
"I hate
different races, arron. Thats
why my children are 50% Navajo Native American and my girlfriend is 100%
Jewish."
Anyone care to
psychoanalyse that one?
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Message 20
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From: Community_Moderator
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Sent: 7/23/2006 1:35 PM
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I take it this means that
nccg_concern/bluewater2 is Navajoo Indian, his
girlfriend is Jewish, and his children are half Navajoo
Indian and half Jewish. Not that it matters. What interests me the most
is a mind that would declare:
"I hate
different races"
Does that mean in nccg_concern's/bluewaters's/Rich
Ross'(?) atheistic utopian world, all the races would be
compelled to intermarry to eliminate all racial differences? (A bit like
the time when the Swedes forced over 60,000 people to be sterilized
because they didn't meet certain racial criteria [I'll not mention Mr.Hitler's Lebensborn as
that might offend his 'other' sensibilities]) Even if he did this, how
would he maintain homogenity of colour and
features? Won't there still be different mixtures, leading effectively to
new races?
Am I picking up signals here
that nccg_concern/bluewater2 has some sort of racial inferiority complex?
Has he been traumatised in youth by unkind jibes by other races? Is he
working out a deep anger against God because of abuse when he was
younger? Does this explain his obsessive-compulsive need to attack
Christians, and why he has turned to at elast
one segment of of people who hate Christians to
create a new species?
Now this may be totally
nonsense but in this little illustration I am doing no more than he
does in speculating, assuming and fantasising about us here at MLT/NCCG. Does he indeed like his own medicine? Would
he like me to create a bluewater2_concern site analysing his every move
and statement on line. Woiuld he like me to
send private detectives to his home in California and dig up evferything on his past? Perhaps he'd like me to dig
up some of the bullies who abused him when he was a child (I'm only
speculating, you know) and get their unbiased testimonies? Maybe he even
has a criminal record. Maybe he used to be a drunk. Maybe, maybe, maybe.
Maybe he's a martian - let's look for unusual
birthmarks and get a doctor's testimony. At least that's his methodology.
Maybe he's been in prison. I'm sure a good journalist like Mr. Sjöholm could write a juicy story given the
right incentives.
And does atheism really cure his inner hurts? Ironically, the one he seems to hate the
most (like many of the things we fear the most) is probably the only one
who can help him.
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Message 21
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From:  Community_Moderator
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Sent: 7/23/2006 2:02 PM
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"As far as I am concerned, Xtianity hijacked the parts of the
Torah, Nevi'im and Kethuvim
that conveniently justify their own twisted system. Thats
just me, of course."
Xtianity - if you do a search on the word, is aa
term of abuse used against Christians principally by atheists, pagans and
satanists. You will find that most other
religions are more respectful (though Muslims with long memories may call
them 'Crusaders').
Since
we're using an abbreviation of Christianity (Xtianity)
which is generally regarded as a term of abuse, this tells us a great
deal about Mr. Concern's neutrality and lack of bias and explains why he
said in his politically correct (?) nccg_concern
website that he has "nothing against Christians" - wonder why
he didn't say he has "nothing against Xtians"
- doesn't have quite the right politically correct ring, does it? As one online dictionary of slang defines:
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xtian
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A word that atheists use because for some
reason they think it's supposed to insult Christians.
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We
recall all of bluewater2's rants against Christians, such as:
"you
resort to name calling, calling me a liar, calling me a child"
Since
calling someone an 'xtian' or belonging to 'xtianity' is generally recognised as being a term of
insult by atheists, what does that make Mr. Concern? You've got it, a
hypocrite. Of course he'll doubtless dig up some alternative
minority definitions of 'xtian' (like an
ex-Christian) and try to wriggle his way out that way, but what the heck,
we're trying to defame him, aren't we? (that was an ironic remark btw,
not a statement of our intent ... just to show him how he operates
against us. I know how he loves to quote out of
context and mistakes comedy for serious discussion ... but then it seems
he has no sense of humour).
Signed
The Liqorice Kid
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Message 22
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From: Community_Moderator
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Sent: 7/23/2006 2:24 PM
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Ahhhhhhh - silly me! I just twigged!!!
"I hate different
races" means that he hates ALL races except Navajo's and
Jews!!!
Why didn't I see it before?
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On July 27, Bluewater2 emailed Christopher
Warren and gave him a piece of his
mind.
Christopher Warren then made this post into the nccgcybercommunity
message board thread as his response.
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Message 27 of 27 in Discussion
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From: Community_Moderator
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Sent: 7/27/2006 9:29 PM
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If nccg_concern
and bluewater2 are indeed two separate persons, then I apologise for
confusing the two identities. However, bluewater2 should have been more
careful when he posted nccg_concern in the first
person. And given how nit-picky these fellow atheists, agnostics, or
whatever they are, are (nccg_conceren seems
to have dedicated his life to picking through every single statement I have
ever made as though I were some sort of infallible super-human), they must
expect to picked apart and misunderstood in the same way. They are so
consumed in their rage against Christians that they follow a
double-standard, missing the winks and hints at humour and seeing in them
some terrible conspiracy to defame them. However, I did not come seeking
for them - they came seeking for me.
As for bluewater2 having
"nothing against Christians" (odd, I seem to remember nccg_concern using exactly the same words on his
website ... birds of a feather, no doubt), I let his post in Message #1
speak for itself, along with the defences offered by the cult of
atheism.
As for his family, I wish them
all well, as I do all families, and may his children prosper in
truth.
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(Interjection
from NCCG_Concern: Heh?
About 2 hours after making this post, Christopher Warren removed the
link for this entire "NCCG Critics"
message board from the groups.msn.com/nccgcybercommunity
web site. The message board is still alive but it's almost invisible from the
front page of the site. One effect of this is that most of the NCCG members may not get to see this last post from
Christopher Warren. The original character assassination had been available for
5 days, and the apology/retraction was fully visible for about 2 hours. If I
become aware that Chris uses another means to clarify to the many NCCG members that this (somewhat) apology was made, I'll
update this page to reflect that. [Actually, the
members of NCCG Cyber Community are encouraged by the
group moderators to use the "View all message boards at once" option,
as the group has something like 65(!) boards in it, and it is nearly impossible
to follow everything if you don't use that option. In that sense, the thread
was visible for days in the front page of "All message boards". The
only way to hide it would be to delete it.
The thread WAS deleted, but this occurred about a
month later.]
When I looked at the text of Chris' last post in the thread, I was
surprised that Chris had blown this opportunity by writing a big pile of
excuses and blame-shifting right in the middle of what started out as an
apology. He still had the concept of "if" thrown in there, even. Just
the first and last sentences of this post, with the whole middle section cut
out, would have been almost perfect (almost). [I can't but smile with this one. I'd very much like to see how nccg_concern will react to this webpage you are reading
now, which points out to him a long series of mistakes. Check out if he will
apologise, straight out, no if's, no blame-shifting,
no excuses: I bet you anything, he won't.]
The concept of "nothing against Christians" has never been on
my site except as it was recently quoted from Bluewater2's text).
